By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale is a MAJOR flop - we need to talk about it

Kenology on 01 December 2012
psrock said:
I remember when we had threads like this about LBP, Uncharted, Kilzone 2. Threads like these always come back to bite hard.

This is very true.  I don't think this thread would even exist if it wasn't for Gil's prediction thread.



Around the Network
Galaki on 01 December 2012

P4G is the best game ever, only on Sony platform. Metacritic proves it with its highest score.

PSA is a great game, more so than SSBB. You just can't judge it by its Metacritic score.



Pre-order limited edition Blue Slime Condoms

Noobie on 01 December 2012

the game definitely flopped in Europe. but do we have real numbers in USA.. I think i will like to wait for the NPD numbers (if we get any).. to make an assumption



http://techorate.blogspot.com/

http://caylu.wordpress.com/

Kenology on 01 December 2012
Galaki said:
P4G is the best game ever, only on Sony platform. Metacritic proves it with its highest score.

PSA is a great game, more so than SSBB. You just can't judge it by its Metacritic score.

Very true... metacritic is the gold standard whenever it's convenient.



fillet on 01 December 2012
Jay520 said:
fillet said:
Jay520 said:
noname2200 said:
Jay520 said:


same could be said in the reverse. For successful new IPs, large openings are the exception, not the rule. It's more times than not a low opening (100-200k). One week of sales is really a poor indicator of long term sales for new IPs. (Speaking on PABR here. Lbpk is most likely a flop).

Hope springs eternal, I suppose. I'll close this discussion by pointing out that 1) you're constructing a narrative out of a fawlsity, and more importantly 2) the vast majority of new IPs have low openings...and poor lifetime sales.


Perhaps most successful new IPs did not have low openings (I don't feel like looking it up right now). But do you disagree that this has been the case for a large number of them? Specifically new IPs on the PS3 too.

As for your second point...you're warranting calling it a flop because of what the majority of past games have done. If that were valid, that warrant you to call it a flop even before its released. Since the vast majority of new IPs have low sales, and PABR is a new IP, therefore it will flop. But of course that doesn't make sense.

The same goes for what you're doing now, except to a lesser extreme. You're saying the vast majority of new IPs with low openings have poor lifetime sales, and PABR is a new IP with a low opening, therefore it will have poor lifetime sales, therefore it will flop. This is nearly as bad as the aforementioned example. Even if the vast majority of new IPs with low openings have poor lifetime sales, that doesn't mean its accurate to call a game a flop already. Think about this: If we called every new IP with a low opening a flop, we would have been wrong about a large portion of games. That portion would so large, that it I think it should sway the mentality on deciding when we can safely label a game as flopping.

...the false narrative continues.

You write very well but since the people reading your post are in full view of the facts, unlike in a newspaper where the journalist is handing out the facts, it means that we can read this for what it is.

Basically, you are creating a narrative according to values that suit your argument and not discussing the case at hand.

Your second paragraph is a benchmark of your false narrative, you've used a ridiculous hypothetical dreamland set of values that make no sense, (your own words!), then attempted to pass judgement on someone's argument using those ridiculous pillars of nonsensical nonsense.....Nonsense!

The trouble with the "new ip" card, is that we've heard it before and it never makes it acceptable and each case has to be judged on it's merrits. PSABR is a holiday title, it's received pretty good publicity, it's got the word "Playstation" in it, people were expecting a lot. It's not an exotic title, it should appeal to a large audience, it's not in a wierd genre.

So I don't think the "new ip" card is suitable at all in this case, and even if it were. Then the sales are still bad considering it's holiday season.

It's too early for paragraph 3 to make any sense at this point in the day, I'll need at least 5 cups of coffee and a calculator before that even begins to sink it.


You seem to disagree that a large portion of new IPs have low openings. Is that true? If so,then I guess I can only respond further with facts and data. Fair enough then. I shall respond in the future with data that supports my claim.

Also, I have just noticed with you're post, but I think I've been using a different definition of flop than you and noname. You seem to say its a flop because the sales are low given the circumstances and expectations. If that is the definition of a flop, then by all means, PABR is the biggest flop of the year. However, I have a different definition of flop. And if this game manages to sell over 1m, it instantly isn't a flop in my opinion, especially given the likely low budget. But I suppose we cannot agree on the best definition of "flop" though.


Good reply, I'll refrain from debating on the matter further since my definition of a "flop" is different than the standard here which your definition is closer too. I enjoyed reading your post for what it's worth as it does make a refreshing change from most of the droning from some members.



Around the Network
Jay520 on 01 December 2012
fillet said:


Good reply, I'll refrain from debating on the matter further since my definition of a "flop" is different than the standard here which your definition is closer too. I enjoyed reading your post for what it's worth as it does make a refreshing change from most of the droning from some members.


As promised, here is my data:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=150745



NeoRatt on 01 December 2012
xKakashi209x said:
NeoRatt said:
Back at E3 everyone was saying the PS3 would eat the other consoles alive for the holidays because of the great exclusive content...

PS All Stars, LBP Karting, and Last of Us... Plus Wonder Books for the casuals...

Last of Us ended up being a title for next year, LBP Karting, PS All Stars are both flops... Wonder Books is non-existent.

I think PS All Stars and LBP Karting are good games. But, I can't help but think that PSN Plus people are sitting there thinking... "Why buy it when it will show up free in a few months?". As much as PSN Plus has helped Sony fund their network services, I also think the free games part has to be affecting sales of key games like these. I have pretty much stopped buying PS3 games... I just wait for the monthly list and accept the freebies as my PS3 collection now.

How can you call a game a flop if it hasn't even been out for more then two weeks? 

This is "the" PS3 exclusive for the holidays.  It has been talked about for months as of the characters have ben revealed... And after week one (on the biggest shopping weekend in North America) it didn't crack 200,000 in sales.  I may be proven wrong and people may start buying this game in droves, but then you can say you told me so...  Typically games don't sell more from week to week from their first week sales...   Given that this and LBP Katring are the only two holiday exclusives from Sony for the PS3, I would expect far better sales.  Its a flop, and that is a pity because they are both good games from what I have seen...



Ji99saw on 01 December 2012
Jay520 said:
Ji99saw said:

Time it was posted is irrelevant, it answers your question and debunks your assertion that no one other than Gilgamesh said it would sell 5 million. You can spin it as much as you want but it doesn't change the facts. Jay your better than this just admit you were wrong and move on.


To be fair, I never made any assertions. I simply asked a question. True, it answers my question, but I can give my analysis, can't I? After all, you seem shocked out how people's prediction have changed so dramatically from being a "5 miller seller." I was just letting you know that predictions have been dropping gradually for the past few weeks. Not sure what I'm "spinning" either.

It is true that I believed you would be wrong. And by virtue of that fact, yes, I am wrong. I am wrong and I feel shamed (though only a little bit). But you say "nice in." Excellent, I'd love to move on. I'm now replying to your original stance when you were shocked at the posters in this thread.

About the original post I was only miffed a little bit as to why people would hold it to such high standards in the first place just to back peddle later. I don't know any new I.P. especially an exclusive one sell 5 million and dominate a certain genre with their first release this late in a console cycle. I was also kind of upset that they just assumed it would destroy SSB in one game, because I think that SSB more than earns the spot it covets and deserves more respect than that.



Without order nothing can exist - without chaos nothing can evolve.

"I don't debate, I just give you that work"- Ji99saw

JWeinCom on 01 December 2012
Jay520 said:
JWeinCom said:
Jay520 said:
JWeinCom said:

Hmmmmmmm... So Sony released a derivative fighting game with a poor roster and a lack of polish and its sales are poor. Whodathunk.

The game might reach 1.5 M. Maybe 2M if you want to count bundles. Ok for the average game. For a game that features all of Sony's biggest franchises, and was their big release for the holiday... kind of sad.


Edit:  What's with this new IP rationalization?  Calling this a new IP is maybe technically correct, but willfully dishonest.  When a game launches with 20 supposedly well known characters that should negate a huge portion of the trepidation most new IPs face.  This isn't some risky obscure new title...


Huh?


Perhaps I phrased that poorly, but the point is that this game has characters like Kratos, Drake, Sack Boy, and a bunch of other Sony's main franchises.  So, it instantly has far more name recognition than something like Dishonored or Catherine.  

And no, that does not negate the roster sucking :)

Aside from Nintendo, since when were mere characters strong enough to negate the disadvantage of being a new IP? Sure, consumers may recognize the characters, but that's only a tiny part of the game. That doesn't mean they're going to be convinced to buy the game. There are much more important gameplay factors. The game could be crap from a consumer's perspective and that's why its treated like a new IP. 

The characters in PABR may be slightly recognizable but the actual game is not. So I'd expect a low opening just like I'd expect a low opening for a game nearly every film-to-video game adaptation, or a game like DC Universe, even if they have memorable characters. Merely having memorable characters isn't enough to encourage consumers to risk their money like its an established franchise. Consumers still know nothing about how the game plays, which is the most influential factor in the game's enjoyment.

Not to mention Sony doesn't have a single character with the popularity of say...Mario, Master Chief, etc. Kratos and Nathan Drake are the biggest characters in the game and they are not big characters at all.

It's not like I expect EVERY GOW or Uncharted fan to pick up the game, but you'd expect that fans of those games would at the very least be curious about  the title.  Even with a cult classic like Parappa, you'd expect a decent amount of old parappa fans to want to check out the game.  I mean, I bought Tatsunoko vs Capcom just to play as Mega Man Volnutt.

And that's the problem I see here.  I can't say for certain, but I think the awareness and interest in this game pre launch was reasonably high.  I know the youtube ads and such had big numbers, and the game had VERY strong coverage on sites like IGN, stage time at E3, a free open beta, presence at Evo, and so on.  I would imagine that fans of these various franchises checked out the game and just said "meh".

That's the problem when you make a game like this.  People see it and think "oh that's like Smash Bros".  Whether that's fair or not is a discussion for another day, but it's hard to deny that at least on a superficial level people see PSASBR and think Smash.  And it's hard for them to get really excited about something that's already been done incredibly well.  Sony needs to do a much better job of differentiating their products from their competitors.  



noname2200 on 01 December 2012
Jay520 said:


Perhaps most successful new IPs did not have low openings (I don't feel like looking it up right now). But do you disagree that this has been the case for a large number of them? Specifically new IPs on the PS3 too.

As for your second point...you're warranting calling it a flop because of what the majority of past games have done. If that were valid, that warrant you to call it a flop even before its released. Since the vast majority of new IPs have low sales, and PABR is a new IP, therefore it will flop. But of course that doesn't make sense.

The same goes for what you're doing now, except to a lesser extreme. You're saying the vast majority of new IPs with low openings have poor lifetime sales, and PABR is a new IP with a low opening, therefore it will have poor lifetime sales, therefore it will flop. This is nearly as bad as the aforementioned example.

Even if the vast majority of new IPs with low openings have poor lifetime sales, that doesn't mean its accurate to call a game a flop already. Think about this: If we called every new IP with a low opening a flop, we would have been wrong about a large portion of games. That portion would so large, that it I think it should sway the mentality on deciding when we can safely label a game as flopping.

Actually, you're completely reversing what I'm saying. Your assertion is that the game is not a flop because it's a new IP and those can go on to do great. I'm simply pointing out that low debuts -> great success is a path rarely trod, and that if that is the sole argument that can be raised then it will fail, because such events are the exception rather than the rule. While I'm not inclined to think PSABR is going to be one of those exceptions without aggressive bundling, I haven't called it a flop yet.