I'm surprised at how many people think Israel is to blame for violence.

If Israel was never attacked again, they would never fire a rocket again.

Let them expand. Destroy their belligerent neighbors. At least they can manage a competant country. Other middle eastern countries are just terrible by almost every metric whether it be economically, in education, or basic care.

I'm just leaving posts all over the place here... <_>

But Nagorno-Karabakh is different because the Armenia-Azerbaijan border was intended to be like the North Carolina/Tennessee border; they're all Soviets.

Just one of those things, like Abkhazia and South Ossetia, that nobody really thought through before the Soviet Union collapsed.

That's not meeting them halfway at all.  They want to be part of Israel because they want to be Israeli citizens.

They want access to Israeli schools, jobs and healthcare.

You are essentially taking way everything they want.

Outside which, you've not created an international city, that will likely be nicer then the rest of Palestine.  I'm sure there will be zero resentment there.

Also... outside which, an independent city of Palestine would end up satisfying NEITHER adherent of those two faiths.  I'm sure Christians will be cool with it though.

The problem is that both sides are right, and both sides are wrong. Nobody holds a moral high ground. The modern state of Israel was founded by terrorists, and that is a literal fact. That said it is hypocritical to denounce Muslims for engaging in terrorism. When the Jewish people won a state through terrorism. While it is true that Israel does have a right to protect its citizens. The Palestinians have every right to try to wrest back what was taken from them through force of arms. Both sides are equally sleazy, and equally unsporting.

Worse then that however is the Jewish identity exemplified in Zionism is really true to its roots. What a lot of folks in this thread aren't aware of is that the Jewish people passed the first racial purity laws. As a people they are the ones that got the ball rolling on the whole notion of ethnic cleansing. Going so far as to enshrine the concept in their holy book. Yes the Jews are literally racist in their beliefs. Mind you the dominating mindset of Islam isn't all that much better. Islam is a expansionist faith just like Christianity. It simply isn't a live and let live creed speaking in a literal sense.

Were that all not bad enough when it comes to perpetuating the conflict, as if dirty fighting, and intolerance were not enough. The resources being disputed are marginal. The territory being disputed isn't large, but the population density is huge. Both groups literally need every inch of land they can get for self sufficiency. So it isn't just a war of revenge, or a war of clashing world views. It is a clash between peoples trying to ensure their very survival.

That all said the best way to resolve the conflict is actually counter intuitive. Namely for third parties to stop their involvement entirely. It is actually the involvement of third parties that is prolonging the conflict. Even the act of trying to mediate the conflict encourages both sides to hold to positions. Meaning they are perpetually trapped in a vicious little circle that goes nowhere. That said if the world was really serious about helping then this is what the world as a whole needs to do.

Tell the state of Israel, and the Palestinian people that if they don't come to a friendship by a specific future date. Then the world will rescind its recognition of both parties. Give them a simple two option mandate. Either their future is a Golden age or a Stone age. I guarantee you that given those options both sides would start tripping over one another to make overtures and concessions.

I'm not seeing what there actually makes it different.  Other then the claim that Amrenian's and Azerbaijan is the same simply because they both used to be in the Soviet Union.

Which is ridiculious.

They're actually more ethnically diverse then Jews and Muslims and also dividided by religion.

It's as similar to any situation as your likely to get in the world.

The same could be said about the United States. After all, look how they became a state.

"they arent a state so it doesnt matter if someone or a group of people says they are.  ( they do not have the function, form or capabilities of a state.  they do not and cannot meet the criteria for a state without a resolution with England.   if they acted like adults then all the pressure would be on England to concede to a reasonable settlement.   when they behave like menaces then the focus will always be on their own improvement)"

I mean in the sense that the borders were drawn back when nobody cared (or, no-one was expected to care); what does it matter if you're in this part of the Soviet Union or that part of the Soviet Union?

That said, a fair bit of border-drawing should have been done as part of the negotiations that led to the dissolution of the union, to fix problems of Russian minorities in Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, and Moldova, the Abkhazia/Ossetia question, Russians in Kazakhstan, and Nagorno-Karabakh.

Then obviously America should be expecting some kind of retaliation from Mexico, considering American militia have been shooting Mexican civilians even on the Mexican side of the border.

No, it's more of a game of "my military is bigger than yours, so I can do what I want".

Ehhm    Let me give you 1 reason why they hate israel.  You know when israel was "made"  they had a specific territory that was given to them.  They  then stole territory from the arabs.  (Sure it was not all arab territory etc since jews and arabs were living there.)


Thats just 1 reason.



I mean just think about it.  Lets say you live in the USA and then someone just gives 50% of the territory to russia or china. And then russians or chinese force you out of the rest of the 50%.  I  doubt you would be happy.