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Forums - Sales Discussion - The PS3/Xbox 360 Holiday Sales Gap Thread! (Updated: January 11th) - ADJUSTMENTS! Last week is UP!, PS3 and X360 basically back to where the table began, PS3 1.5 million sold more then X360 in 2012

sales2099 on 26 November 2012
Blood_Tears said:
sales2099 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Lotta strange logic in this thread.

Simply because a new generation has begun does not mean the old generational race is over. Until all of these units are no longer being produced and sold, it persists. The company is still selling the units, they certainly do not consider it "over".

You can keep selling, but the "race" is actually over.

For example you can argue this gen started in November 2005 with Xbox 360 launching and ended November 2012 with WiiU launching.

That is the "window of relevance", when any victories actually count for something. Anything outside this window is hollow.

There is no set of rules or guidelines for how a "window of relevance" is applied. This is simply your own personal thoughts or opinions which of course will differ from alot of people on here.

For instance, I know that when X360 passes the Wii in the UK and the USA there will be a thread created about it on this site. Alot of people will post in it and congratulate the X360 for it's "victory" in those specific regions. You might even post in it yourself giving congrats as well. These inevitable threads that will be created won't be (IMO) "hollow victories". They will just be a fact for sales comparisons as numbers don't lie. The same will likely happen with PS3 and X360 with over all shipment numbers. You said it yourself in a previous post that you tire of seeing PS3 on top all year round and now that 360 is on top, "all is right with the world". Just because you don't want it to happen, doesn't mean it won't come to fruition anyway. 

Because you move the goal posts to suit your personal opinion is fine for you, we all get that. But it's still your personal opinion. I would suspect that not many others share this same belief here. You will see it soon enough when 360 passes the Wii in the UK in the very near future and everyone will be saying that 360 was the market leader in the UK. (even after Wii U is released)

My own personal belief is the same as "dsgrue3", it's over when they stop selling or discontinued. That's my defination of the "race".

There is no guidelines, but I am using commin sense. Any real victory is when the current gen consoles are the latest thing. When the new ones come out, the spotlight (and interest) is shifted. So any meaningfulness is stripped if PS3 were to take 2nd place when the next gen consoles are out (and likely the next Xbox is getting a head start on PS4).

You can keep selling, but the race is only as long as the current gen lasts. Any selling beyond that is a victory lap.

Tell you what, I will move my own personal goal posts for another year. The gen "relevance" will end holiday 2013. Xbox started this gen and the next Xbox will finish it.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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MaulerX on 26 November 2012

Personally, if for some miraculous reason either the 360 or the PS3 end up outselling the Wii, then I would never say that either of those consoles "won" the generation. Fully knowing that everyone is now focused on the Wii U. Sure, it will matter to some and perhaps to some degree. But the same will hold true when the next PS/Xbox come out.



Lostplanet22 on 26 November 2012
riderz13371 said:
vfguy said:
The fact that Sony has only tied the 360 thus far has to be seen as a failure regardless of what happens, considering they came off the most successful console of all time, and have sold well in three territories against Microsoft's two territories.

Failure in sales, success in games. Sony wins in the heart of a TRUE gamer regardless of what place they are in for sales. Yes it is a business and they need to make money but I believe that sooner or later people will realize what they have been missing by not buying a Sony console. Hopefully they don't let us down with the PS4 (which they won't). 

Then why true gamers are not buying their games?



 

ironmanDX on 26 November 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
sales2099 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Lotta strange logic in this thread.

Simply because a new generation has begun does not mean the old generational race is over. Until all of these units are no longer being produced and sold, it persists. The company is still selling the units, they certainly do not consider it "over".

You can keep selling, but the "race" is actually over.

For example you can argue this gen started in November 2005 with Xbox 360 launching and ended November 2012 with WiiU launching.

That is the "window of relevance", when any victories actually count for something. Anything outside this window is hollow.


The gen ends for a console when its next version of its console is out. Sony and Microsoft will duke it out for another  year. Microsoft has only one exclusive left to their name and they can thank EPIC for that. Microsoft first party is spent until next gen.

I agree. Nintendo is no longer focussed on the Wii so it's sales are no longer relevant.  WiiU is their new hardware, that is their entry horse (so to speak) into the new race. The Wii has already crossed the line. The 360 will more than likely hold on........... Just.



pokoko on 26 November 2012
Lostplanet22 said:
riderz13371 said:
vfguy said:
The fact that Sony has only tied the 360 thus far has to be seen as a failure regardless of what happens, considering they came off the most successful console of all time, and have sold well in three territories against Microsoft's two territories.

Failure in sales, success in games. Sony wins in the heart of a TRUE gamer regardless of what place they are in for sales. Yes it is a business and they need to make money but I believe that sooner or later people will realize what they have been missing by not buying a Sony console. Hopefully they don't let us down with the PS4 (which they won't). 

Then why true gamers are not buying their games?

Just curious, but what are you talking about?  



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MaulerX on 26 November 2012
pezus said:
MaulerX said:
Personally, if for some miraculous reason either the 360 or the PS3 end up outselling the Wii, then I would never say that either of those consoles "won" the generation. Fully knowing that everyone is now focused on the Wii U. Sure, it will matter to some and perhaps to some degree. But the same will hold true when the next PS/Xbox come out.

It's just a fact though that if they would pass the Wii, they sold more than the Wii...

 

Oh but of course. But would you say they "won the generation"? I'm pretty sure if you ran a poll most people would logically say that the Wii won this generation even if it got outsold after the next generation started.



dsgrue3 on 26 November 2012
MaulerX said:
pezus said:
MaulerX said:
Personally, if for some miraculous reason either the 360 or the PS3 end up outselling the Wii, then I would never say that either of those consoles "won" the generation. Fully knowing that everyone is now focused on the Wii U. Sure, it will matter to some and perhaps to some degree. But the same will hold true when the next PS/Xbox come out.

It's just a fact though that if they would pass the Wii, they sold more than the Wii...

 

Oh but of course. But would you say they "won the generation"? I'm pretty sure if you ran a poll most people would logically say that the Wii won this generation even if it got outsold after the next generation started.

If you polled them today, they would agree. If you polled someone 10 years from now, the final results would be reviewed and a "winner" declared based upon sales. It is a difference between opinion versus fact. The sales are the facts.



ironmanDX on 26 November 2012
dsgrue3 said:
MaulerX said:
pezus said:
MaulerX said:
Personally, if for some miraculous reason either the 360 or the PS3 end up outselling the Wii, then I would never say that either of those consoles "won" the generation. Fully knowing that everyone is now focused on the Wii U. Sure, it will matter to some and perhaps to some degree. But the same will hold true when the next PS/Xbox come out.

It's just a fact though that if they would pass the Wii, they sold more than the Wii...

 

Oh but of course. But would you say they "won the generation"? I'm pretty sure if you ran a poll most people would logically say that the Wii won this generation even if it got outsold after the next generation started.

If you polled them today, they would agree. If you polled someone 10 years from now, the final results would be reviewed and a "winner" declared based upon sales. It is a difference between opinion versus fact. The sales are the facts.

Not always. M$ will have beaten Sony no matter the end sales result. Profit, marketshare, brand awareness.....



MaulerX on 26 November 2012
dsgrue3 said:
MaulerX said:
pezus said:
MaulerX said:
Personally, if for some miraculous reason either the 360 or the PS3 end up outselling the Wii, then I would never say that either of those consoles "won" the generation. Fully knowing that everyone is now focused on the Wii U. Sure, it will matter to some and perhaps to some degree. But the same will hold true when the next PS/Xbox come out.

It's just a fact though that if they would pass the Wii, they sold more than the Wii...

 

Oh but of course. But would you say they "won the generation"? I'm pretty sure if you ran a poll most people would logically say that the Wii won this generation even if it got outsold after the next generation started.

If you polled them today, they would agree. If you polled someone 10 years from now, the final results would be reviewed and a "winner" declared based upon sales. It is a difference between opinion versus fact. The sales are the facts.

 

That's the thing. If the clear rule is how much a system sold (even if it overlaps several generations) then fine, I would never argue that. But there doesn't seem to be a clear rule. Plenty of people seem to believe that if a new generation starts, then technically the old generation ends. In a hot dog eating contest, if you happen to eat a few extra dogs after the time limit expired, then more power to you, it still doesn't count for the purpose of what's being judged.



dsgrue3 on 26 November 2012
MaulerX said:
dsgrue3 said:
MaulerX said:
pezus said:
MaulerX said:
Personally, if for some miraculous reason either the 360 or the PS3 end up outselling the Wii, then I would never say that either of those consoles "won" the generation. Fully knowing that everyone is now focused on the Wii U. Sure, it will matter to some and perhaps to some degree. But the same will hold true when the next PS/Xbox come out.

It's just a fact though that if they would pass the Wii, they sold more than the Wii...

 

Oh but of course. But would you say they "won the generation"? I'm pretty sure if you ran a poll most people would logically say that the Wii won this generation even if it got outsold after the next generation started.

If you polled them today, they would agree. If you polled someone 10 years from now, the final results would be reviewed and a "winner" declared based upon sales. It is a difference between opinion versus fact. The sales are the facts.

 

That's the thing. If the clear rule is how much a system sold (even if it overlaps several generations) then fine, I would never argue that. But there doesn't seem to be a clear rule. Plenty of people seem to believe that if a new generation starts, then technically the old generation ends. In a hot dog eating contest, if you happen to eat a few extra dogs after the time limit expired, then more power to you, it still doesn't count for the purpose of what's being judged.


This isn't a hot dog eating contest. It's an endurance race that persists so long as there are sales. I think there is incredible amount of ambiguity as to what constitutes a rule in regard to this, which is why sales and as ironmanDX said market share, brand awareness, and profit are all good measures of success.