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Forums - Sony - Playstation all-stars intro video

JoeTheBro said:
JWeinCom said:

If you have a game where there are numerous approach options that are hard to defend against, like UMVC3 or Melee, you have a very fast paced and aggressive game, with a few exceptions like any time Morrigan gets on the screen.  If you have a game with fewer reliable approach options, like SF4 or Brawl, you typically have a slower paced game that focuses on spacing, pokes, and footsies.

In PSAllStars, I don't see a great deal of approach options. Even less than in a game like SF4 and Brawl.  This might change as people get better and play more creatively, but as of now the options seem limited to a couple of dashing attacks for each character.   This isn't a huge deal in 2v2 or FFA, where characters aren't solely focused on you, but it presents more of an obstacle in 1v1 games.  So thats why I think this game will work better in FFA (or perhaps 2v2) than 1v1.  Again that's totally not a knock on the game.  Like I said a lot of the choices that I think won't make it a great 1v1 game are also the things that might help make it an excellent FFA/2v2 game.

Great post explaining your concerns. Going off of approaches and the like you seem to prefer weak fast characters over slow strong ones, correct? In that case lots of the characters will be great for you, just not Big Daddy and Sir Daniel. In 1v1 some characters will just not be worth it. I agree that 100% of the time a good sackboy player would beat a good big daddy.

Thank you.  I typically actually skew towards middle of the pack characters.  In Brawl, I play Zero Suit Samus, in SF4 I go Bison, and in UMVC3 I go Trish/Frank/Dante.  I like characters who could attack well and defend well.

My concern is just that on the whole, it will be very hard to approach a character that has a sizable lead.  This is probably the biggest problem in the Brawl Metagame, where a player could get a lead, and stall out the remainder of the match.  Of course, this assumes that the stock mode in PSASBR has some sort of timer, but if it doesn't that's an even bigger problem.

So, my concern is that if each character seems to rely on one or two attacks to get inside, that could be a very big problem.  Considering that PSASBR doesn't have strong jump in options or a dash function this could be a problem.

So far, of the characters Evil Cole seems to have an interesting set of options to get around these things.  Raiden seems very good at applying pressure as his dashing air attack is very fast, but he needs some other option to round things out.  I'm curous to see how Dante plays.  If he playse true to his games, he should have a lot of interesting tricks up his sleeve.



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JWeinCom said:

"how could i forget? 

walk towards them then attack them like in street fighter, mortal kombat, soul caliber etc etc etc"

I take it you're tearing up the tournament scene with this amazing strategy?  I'll go into the shoryuken and smashboards forums where they have dozens and dozens of pages discussing how to approach certain characters and say "No you guys are doing this wrong.  Just walk forward and attack."

"moving quickly towards your opponent isn't always necessary especially when one of your moves can freeze them in place"

It's necessary if you're behind in the match.  How does dropping a puddle in front of him help against an evasive character who's trying to stay away?

"
well its fortunate then that no character shown so far, for this game appears to be that broken"

I was just trying to show the importance of approach/defense options.  We won't know if any characters are broken till at least a year into the metagame.

"the reason i asked is because obviously conventionally with fighting games you walk or hop towards your opponent and attack

you have nothing like flying, teleportation etc in games like mortal combat, street fighter, soul calibur etc

and they are all 1v1 games

generally you walk or run towards your opponent and attack them

i say this all based on your assumption that the characters in playstation all stars don't have many traversal techniques"

No offense, but you seem like a casual fighting game player, so maybe you're looking at this from a different persepective.  You seem to be describing a very simplistic level of play.

I'm not an expert on MK (but you do have teleporting.  Just ask Raiden).  But Street Fighter 4 has a decent set of approach options.  Air attacks are often useful for approaching, you have high/low mixups,  dashing, focus canceled attacks, and crossups for starters. There are also a lot of character specific options such as hurrican kicks, air fireballs, Vipers fire kick thing, Cammy's Hooligan combination, Bison's Head stomp/psycho crusher/scissors kick/teleport, Rufus's Mesiah kick, and so on.  Oh, and SF4 does have teleporting.  Bison, Dhalsim, and Akuma can all do it.  I think Oni may be able to as well, I forget.

Also, Street Fighter 4 is a also a smaller more enclosed game, so it's hard to really get too far from your opponent.  PASBR is a larger games, with more platforms, universal double jumping, airdodging and other elements which should make running from an opponent more difficult. In other words, I think PSASBR may make it easier to evade than to attack. 

Soul Calibur is a different beast altogether because it's a 3D fighter.

"i say this all based on your assumption that the characters in playstation all stars don't have many traversal techniques

which imo is wrong btw, for example toro has teleportation and sliding techniques ( maybe even more traversal techniques that i'm unaware of ) that you obviously weren't aware of before

then again i can't blame you, the player didn't show them"

Traversal techniques are not the same think as approach options.  Take M. Bison from Street Fighter 4 for instance.  His teleport gets you across the screen very quickly, but you can't attack out of it, so it won't help you score a hit.  It's only there for defensive purposes.  Approaching is traversing in a way that puts you in an advantageous offensive position.

I haven't seen all of the characters yet, or all of their options, so I could be completely wrong about a lot of this.  Evil Cole showed a surprising amount of versatility.  Like I said, I'm not trying to pass judgement on the game, just give my impressions based on what I've seen/heard/played.

"I take it you're tearing up the tournament scene with this amazing strategy?"

strategising when you don't have the full picture for characters' movesets makes little sense 

which is the massive difference between what you have been doing and what experienced smash/other fighting game players players would be doing

 

" How does dropping a puddle in front of him"

i wasn't talking about that he has a projectile which freezes his opponent

 

"you have nothing like flying, teleportation etc in games like mortal combat, street fighter"

i was wrong on that point i haven't played sf in a while so i forgot about guys like bison, as for mortal combat i'd also forgotted about scorpion in addition to alot of the other characters teleporting

 

"Traversal techniques are not the same think as approach options. "

not always but they definitely overlap, which is the case with the example i used with toro ( who i just remembered also has a chain grab similar to scorpion )

 

"I haven't seen all of the characters yet, or all of their options, so I could be completely wrong about a lot of this"

at least you aknowledge that yourself




o_O.Q said:
JWeinCom said:

"how could i forget? 

walk towards them then attack them like in street fighter, mortal kombat, soul caliber etc etc etc"

I take it you're tearing up the tournament scene with this amazing strategy?  I'll go into the shoryuken and smashboards forums where they have dozens and dozens of pages discussing how to approach certain characters and say "No you guys are doing this wrong.  Just walk forward and attack."

"moving quickly towards your opponent isn't always necessary especially when one of your moves can freeze them in place"

It's necessary if you're behind in the match.  How does dropping a puddle in front of him help against an evasive character who's trying to stay away?

"
well its fortunate then that no character shown so far, for this game appears to be that broken"

I was just trying to show the importance of approach/defense options.  We won't know if any characters are broken till at least a year into the metagame.

"the reason i asked is because obviously conventionally with fighting games you walk or hop towards your opponent and attack

you have nothing like flying, teleportation etc in games like mortal combat, street fighter, soul calibur etc

and they are all 1v1 games

generally you walk or run towards your opponent and attack them

i say this all based on your assumption that the characters in playstation all stars don't have many traversal techniques"

No offense, but you seem like a casual fighting game player, so maybe you're looking at this from a different persepective.  You seem to be describing a very simplistic level of play.

I'm not an expert on MK (but you do have teleporting.  Just ask Raiden).  But Street Fighter 4 has a decent set of approach options.  Air attacks are often useful for approaching, you have high/low mixups,  dashing, focus canceled attacks, and crossups for starters. There are also a lot of character specific options such as hurrican kicks, air fireballs, Vipers fire kick thing, Cammy's Hooligan combination, Bison's Head stomp/psycho crusher/scissors kick/teleport, Rufus's Mesiah kick, and so on.  Oh, and SF4 does have teleporting.  Bison, Dhalsim, and Akuma can all do it.  I think Oni may be able to as well, I forget.

Also, Street Fighter 4 is a also a smaller more enclosed game, so it's hard to really get too far from your opponent.  PASBR is a larger games, with more platforms, universal double jumping, airdodging and other elements which should make running from an opponent more difficult. In other words, I think PSASBR may make it easier to evade than to attack. 

Soul Calibur is a different beast altogether because it's a 3D fighter.

"i say this all based on your assumption that the characters in playstation all stars don't have many traversal techniques

which imo is wrong btw, for example toro has teleportation and sliding techniques ( maybe even more traversal techniques that i'm unaware of ) that you obviously weren't aware of before

then again i can't blame you, the player didn't show them"

Traversal techniques are not the same think as approach options.  Take M. Bison from Street Fighter 4 for instance.  His teleport gets you across the screen very quickly, but you can't attack out of it, so it won't help you score a hit.  It's only there for defensive purposes.  Approaching is traversing in a way that puts you in an advantageous offensive position.

I haven't seen all of the characters yet, or all of their options, so I could be completely wrong about a lot of this.  Evil Cole showed a surprising amount of versatility.  Like I said, I'm not trying to pass judgement on the game, just give my impressions based on what I've seen/heard/played.

"I take it you're tearing up the tournament scene with this amazing strategy?"


 

" How does dropping a puddle in front of him"

i wasn't talking about that he has a projectile which freezes his opponent

 

"you have nothing like flying, teleportation etc in games like mortal combat, street fighter"

i was wrong on that point i haven't played sf in a while so i forgot about guys like bison, as for mortal combat i'd also forgotted about scorpion in addition to alot of the other characters teleporting

 

"Traversal techniques are not the same think as approach options. "

not always but they definitely overlap, which is the case with the example i used with toro ( who i just remembered also has a chain grab similar to scorpion )

 

"I haven't seen all of the characters yet, or all of their options, so I could be completely wrong about a lot of this"


"strategising when you don't have the full picture for characters' movesets makes little sense 

which is the massive difference between what you have been doing and what experienced smash/other fighting game players players would be doing"

Actually, no. Smash Bros players started the speculation about strategy the moment they saw gameplay footage.  There were tons of analysis on which characters would be good or bad from the very beginning.  Same thing for the UMvC3 community.   They tore apart EVERY last clip and scrounged for every drop of information, and they didn't even have betas for these games.  There were people posting tier lists within a week of the game's release.  These are VERY dedicated communities and the amount of analysis they did before the games came out was ridiculous.  It was a fun time though, if you're into that sort of thing.  Speculation is fun.

But regardless of whatever the full game winds up being, I can guarantee you that the final metagame will be a whole lot more complex than walking up and hitting the other person.  If the game IS that simple it would be a pretty shitty game.

"i wasn't talking about that he has a projectile which freezes his opponent"

Are you talking about his lightning plasmid?  A little on the slow side I think.  I'm sure it will be circumstantially useful, but not a substitute for legit approach option, especially if you're behind in a match and need to make up ground.

"i was wrong on that point i haven't played sf in a while so i forgot about guys like bison, as for mortal combat i'd also forgotted about scorpion in addition to alot of the other characters teleporting."

Yeah.  A lot of teleportin going on in those games.

"at least you aknowledge that yourself"

Of course.  The Brawl metagame took about a year to really develop, and then it kept moving in a slower pace.  That's pretty quick for a fighting game, because they had Melee as a basis.  PASBR should take longer, but it depends on how deep the mechanics allow it to be.  Games like Mortal Kombat peaked sooner than SF4 because it's a simpler game. 

As I've maintained from the begining, this is how I see the metagame evolving based on what I've seen.  I enjoy speculating on these sort of things.

"not always but they definitely overlap, which is the case with the example i used with toro ( who i just remembered also has a chain grab similar to scorpion )"

Errrr... by chain grab do you mean "get over here" or are you talking about chain grabbing as in repeatedly throwing and regrabbing opponents like in King Dedede in smash?



JWeinCom said:

"strategising when you don't have the full picture for characters' movesets makes little sense 

which is the massive difference between what you have been doing and what experienced smash/other fighting game players players would be doing"

Actually, no. Smash Bros players started the speculation about strategy the moment they saw gameplay footage.  There were tons of analysis on which characters would be good or bad from the very beginning.  Same thing for the UMvC3 community.   They tore apart EVERY last clip and scrounged for every drop of information, and they didn't even have betas for these games.  There were people posting tier lists within a week of the game's release.  These are VERY dedicated communities and the amount of analysis they did before the games came out was ridiculous.  It was a fun time though, if you're into that sort of thing.  Speculation is fun.

But regardless of whatever the full game winds up being, I can guarantee you that the final metagame will be a whole lot more complex than walking up and hitting the other person.  If the game IS that simple it would be a pretty shitty game.

"i wasn't talking about that he has a projectile which freezes his opponent"

Are you talking about his lightning plasmid?  A little on the slow side I think.  I'm sure it will be circumstantially useful, but not a substitute for legit approach option, especially if you're behind in a match and need to make up ground.

"i was wrong on that point i haven't played sf in a while so i forgot about guys like bison, as for mortal combat i'd also forgotted about scorpion in addition to alot of the other characters teleporting."

Yeah.  A lot of teleportin going on in those games.

"at least you aknowledge that yourself"

Of course.  The Brawl metagame took about a year to really develop, and then it kept moving in a slower pace.  That's pretty quick for a fighting game, because they had Melee as a basis.  PASBR should take longer, but it depends on how deep the mechanics allow it to be.  Games like Mortal Kombat peaked sooner than SF4 because it's a simpler game. 

As I've maintained from the begining, this is how I see the metagame evolving based on what I've seen.  I enjoy speculating on these sort of things.

"not always but they definitely overlap, which is the case with the example i used with toro ( who i just remembered also has a chain grab similar to scorpion )"

Errrr... by chain grab do you mean "get over here" or are you talking about chain grabbing as in repeatedly throwing and regrabbing opponents like in King Dedede in smash?

"Actually, no. Smash Bros players started the speculation about strategy the moment they saw gameplay footage"

not for the first entry in the franchise i think you mean they were speculating about improvements or differences made with the sequels

regardless i wasn't trying to say that there's anything wrong with speculating, just that its too early to jump to conclusions

 

"Are you talking about his lightning plasmid?  A little on the slow side I think."

from what i've seen i wouldn't say so

big daddy freezes his opponent repeatedly earning a level 1 kill in one instance

 

", this is how I see the metagame evolving based on what I've seen."

we'll have to wait and see how it turns out

 

"by chain grab do you mean "get over here" 

yes i think it was actually modelled after scorpion's move



KylieDog said:
Aldro said:
I climaxed so hard when Drake made his entry


I'm sure I read this in a totally different way than intended.

It's Aldro, so no you read in the correct way. He really did climax when he saw Drake.



Signature goes here!

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KylieDog said:
TruckOSaurus said:
KylieDog said:
Aldro said:
I climaxed so hard when Drake made his entry


I'm sure I read this in a totally different way than intended.

It's Aldro, so no you read in the correct way. He really did climax when he saw Drake.


Read it again, then again, until you see it.

Don't worry I saw it on the first read.



Signature goes here!

Funny that an intro has made me have an interest in this game. Well done intro and sackboy vs big daddy was clever.



KylieDog said:
Aldro said:
I climaxed so hard when Drake made his entry


I'm sure I read this in a totally different way than intended.



TruckOSaurus said:
KylieDog said:
TruckOSaurus said:
KylieDog said:
Aldro said:
I climaxed so hard when Drake made his entry


I'm sure I read this in a totally different way than intended.

It's Aldro, so no you read in the correct way. He really did climax when he saw Drake.


Read it again, then again, until you see it.

Don't worry I saw it on the first read.

 

I'm going to add on something that might make it a bit clearer for those that aren't sure what Kylie means:

"I climaxed so hard when Drake made his entry into me"



4 ≈ One

Dgc1808 said:
TruckOSaurus said:
KylieDog said:
TruckOSaurus said:
KylieDog said:
Aldro said:
I climaxed so hard when Drake made his entry


I'm sure I read this in a totally different way than intended.

It's Aldro, so no you read in the correct way. He really did climax when he saw Drake.


Read it again, then again, until you see it.

Don't worry I saw it on the first read.

 

I'm going to add on something that might make it a bit clearer for those that aren't sure what Kylie means:

"I climaxed so hard when Drake made his entry into me"


Oh god why 0___0  

Prepare your anus!



PSN ID: clemens-nl