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Forums - Gaming - Did the Wii U force Sony to cut how much power the PS4 will have?

Rafux on 05 November 2012
VGKing said:
joeorc said:

current CTO of Hardware development  over@ Sony Computer Entertainment already stated what type of design their doing 3D stacked chips for the PS4

the PSVita already uses Stacked Chips

http://www.i-micronews.com/news/Sony-wide-IO-memory-Playstation-Vita,9334.html

 

 

It appears that Sony is once again a “3DIC” leader showing that wide IO memory can be used without having to introduce HVM TSV technology which most assuredly, at this point in 3DIC evolution, would have been a costlier option which would have taken significantly longer to implement.

Earlier this year Masaaki Tsuruta, CTO of Sony Computer Entertainment, indicated that there will likely be a 3D stack incorporating TSV technology in the next generation console. Sony's target of no more than 50ms latency even for 8k x 4k resolution at 300fps, clearly points to the need for a highly integrated TSV-based package although Tsuruta warned "We will have to work with a lot of third-party partners to make these things happen."

 

Sony plans to use TSV for its next gaming station CPU/GPU
 
Sony Computer Entertainment is planning on a much longer shelf life for its next generation PlayStation gaming console with a strategy that appears to be based around refreshing the platform over its lifetime with a series of high profile, cutting edge technology including TSV interconnects base packaging.
Masaaki Tsuruta, CTO of Sony Computer Entertainment, says that the company is working on a system-on-chip (SoC) to underpin the product for "seven to 10 years". The PlayStation 3 will be at least seven years old by the time its successor arrives, but is generally considered to have lasted longer than was originally expected. A firm launch for the fourth generation console - not to be called PlayStation 4 - was pushed out again late last year. Its designed-in longevity is largely a matter of economics. 

The Cell Broadband Engine that powered the PS3 cost $400m to develop; the main SoC for the incoming console is likely to be a 3D stack incorporating thru-silicon-via technology and could be the first $1bn hardware design project. “We have to look at two things,” Tsuruta-san says, “return-on-investment (ROI) and turnaround time (TAT).” The ROI issue, given the further costs of bringing a new PS to market (software, marketing, etc), means that Sony will be looking at a number of years and revs of the machine's insides.

 

 


Did I read this correctly? The PS4 chip will cost about $1billion to make compared to the $400million of the Cell?
SoC is a CPU +  GPU right? Is that high price for this? I heard SoC are less expensive in the long-run. 


Mmmm I'm not a tech guy but that sounds like another expensive hard to program processor. Oh boy I'm having a bad flashback of 599$!!!



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JEMC on 05 November 2012
Hynad said:

Now, I think the NextBox and the PS4 are going to be more powerful than the Wii U. But I think both Microsoft and Sony realized, thanks to Nintendo, that better graphics are not going to be enough next gen.  I don't think they'll release consoles that will cost more than 500$. Which I think is the sweet spot for a console that strives to be cutting edge while being affordable. And even that may be too expensive in most people's eyes.

I'm not too sure about that. Sure, neither Microsoft or Sony will have the best selling machine, but at least in the case of Microsoft they have earned quite a bit of money (and it would have been more if they had invested a bit more before launch to prevent the RROD), and their main goal is to become the ultimate media center not the best selling console, something obvious during the last E3.

But I agree that 500$ is too much now. This is not 2005-06, we are in the middle of a big financial crisis where for a lot of people every dollar/euro/pound counts.

 

@Rafux: Not necessarily. If I read it correctly, what Sony is doing is going high instead of wide and that doesn't mean harder to code (by the rumors we know, they seem to have learned to avoid that).



Please excuse my bad English.

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Scisca on 05 November 2012
Cobretti2 said:
I had one of those when I lived in Poland many many years ago. At the same time we owned an arcade so as a child I spent all my time playing games lol.

I did realise Nintendo's pressence wasn't that big (as I was very young when I left).

All I will say is DAMN I am glad NIntendo is a decent size in Australia and I got to enjoy the SNES and N64.

Yeah, everyone had one of those :) But an arcade, that must've been cool! BTW. Which city did you live in?

Unfortunately we totally skipped SNES, N64 and Gamecube (I've actually never even seen these consoles with my own eyes!), since the company that gave us the Pegasus decided to market the Sega Saturn next, and we all know how that went... But at least I could play some Sonic :)

 

When it comes to PS4. I hope Sony releases a strong console. They should target the pricepoint of 400-450 for the cheapest console, which should come without a HDD. Considering they can invest the additional 100$ in price, the cost of the Wii U Gamepad (costly from what I've heard) and have one additional year in which prices of electronics will inevitably go down slightly, they should be able to release quite a powerful machine.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Chevinator123 on 05 November 2012

i wish we would just reach the point where graphics cant get any better

also that goonies gif was gold



Viper1 on 05 November 2012
logic56 said:

pe-people...... who think Sony is poor.... you poor poor souls

It's not that Sony is poor, it's tha the Yen is a whole lot stronger than when the PS3 launched.  That will affect how powerful of a console they can develop.

I'm not saying it won't be powerful, but it won't be the jump over the Wii U that the PS3 was over the Wii.   The Yen going from 110 :1 USD to 77:1 USD can't be ignored.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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Cobretti2 on 05 November 2012
Scisca said:
Cobretti2 said:
I had one of those when I lived in Poland many many years ago. At the same time we owned an arcade so as a child I spent all my time playing games lol.

I did realise Nintendo's pressence wasn't that big (as I was very young when I left).

All I will say is DAMN I am glad NIntendo is a decent size in Australia and I got to enjoy the SNES and N64.

Yeah, everyone had one of those :) But an arcade, that must've been cool! BTW. Which city did you live in?

Unfortunately we totally skipped SNES, N64 and Gamecube (I've actually never even seen these consoles with my own eyes!), since the company that gave us the Pegasus decided to market the Sega Saturn next, and we all know how that went... But at least I could play some Sonic :)

 

When it comes to PS4. I hope Sony releases a strong console. They should target the pricepoint of 400-450 for the cheapest console, which should come without a HDD. Considering they can invest the additional 100$ in price, the cost of the Wii U Gamepad (costly from what I've heard) and have one additional year in which prices of electronics will inevitably go down slightly, they should be able to release quite a powerful machine.

I lived in Chojnow (north west of Legnica, maybe 20km away), about 100kms or so from Wroclaw, assuming I remembered the distancers correctly lol. It is a small town I guess you can call it haha. Arcade was fun cause instead of preschool i spent my whole day playing games for free haha. Then I had to go to school :(

Too bad, SNES and N64, somewhat gamecube had some amazing games.

Personally I would love a PS4 to be in that pirce range if hardware is good step up, but I don't knwo if the general public will agree. Always amazes me how the general public are happy to get the new iphone every 6 months but don't want to spend on a high spec one of cost for a video game consoel which will last them 5-10years.



 

 

Scisca on 07 November 2012
Cobretti2 said:
I lived in Chojnow (north west of Legnica, maybe 20km away), about 100kms or so from Wroclaw, assuming I remembered the distancers correctly lol. It is a small town I guess you can call it haha.

Too bad, SNES and N64, somewhat gamecube had some amazing games.

You remember correctly. A small town indeed :) Hope you enjoyed it.

I could catch up with Gamecube games on my Wii (one of the reasons I got it). Also the Wii and DSi allow me to play some SNES and N64 games, it's not the same though. I feel I especially missed a lot by skipping SNES :( Pity it didn't make it over here.

Cobretti2 said:

Personally I would love a PS4 to be in that pirce range if hardware is good step up, but I don't knwo if the general public will agree. Always amazes me how the general public are happy to get the new iphone every 6 months but don't want to spend on a high spec one of cost for a video game consoel which will last them 5-10years.

People are more eager to spend $200 + contract every year than to spend $600 once in 10 years. Sony should offer a console for $199 and a PSN+ contract. This could also allow them to buff the console up a bit and still have a good price.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

VGKing on 07 November 2012
Hynad said:
Kresnik said:
I'd actually been wondering for a while if Sony were going to side with Nintendo on the power front next generation.

Basically, this gen we had PS3 > 360 (but only slightly) >>> Wii. Nearly all multi-plats were developed for the HD twins.

Next gen, what if it was Xbox >>> PS4 > Wii-U. Where would the third parties go then? Would they go straight to the most powerful, or would the hang back with PS4/Wii-U provided there was sufficient market share there?

Or would, in fact, Xbox even go that much more powerful? What if all 3 consoles were just a minor increment more powerful than the HD twins? Wii-U would join the HD race; Sony would clean up and make a more approachable and multi-tasking console; Microsoft might be able to put some power aside for Kinect.

Idk. Will be interesting to see how it plays out anyway.


The Wii U isn't just a minor incremental power up over the HD twins. It may not be cutting edge by today's standards, but the HD twins are 6 years old tech. It's hardly comparable.  Even if the graphical leaps are going to be less and less noticeable the more we progress into the future, that doesn't change the numbers behind the tech. 

Now, I think the NextBox and the PS4 are going to be more powerful than the Wii U. But I think both Microsoft and Sony realized, thanks to Nintendo, that better graphics are not going to be enough next gen.  I don't think they'll release consoles that will cost more than 500$. Which I think is the sweet spot for a console that strives to be cutting edge while being affordable. And even that may be too expensive in most people's eyes.

@bold
That's just it though, IT IS comparable. Even Nintendo's first party or the 3rd party exclusives aren't showing off this consoles "true" power.

@underlined
More power gets you more than just better graphics. It gets your better AI, better physics, bigger worlds, smoother gameplay....etc.



Hynad on 07 November 2012
VGKing said:
Hynad said:
Kresnik said:
I'd actually been wondering for a while if Sony were going to side with Nintendo on the power front next generation.

Basically, this gen we had PS3 > 360 (but only slightly) >>> Wii. Nearly all multi-plats were developed for the HD twins.

Next gen, what if it was Xbox >>> PS4 > Wii-U. Where would the third parties go then? Would they go straight to the most powerful, or would the hang back with PS4/Wii-U provided there was sufficient market share there?

Or would, in fact, Xbox even go that much more powerful? What if all 3 consoles were just a minor increment more powerful than the HD twins? Wii-U would join the HD race; Sony would clean up and make a more approachable and multi-tasking console; Microsoft might be able to put some power aside for Kinect.

Idk. Will be interesting to see how it plays out anyway.


The Wii U isn't just a minor incremental power up over the HD twins. It may not be cutting edge by today's standards, but the HD twins are 6 years old tech. It's hardly comparable.  Even if the graphical leaps are going to be less and less noticeable the more we progress into the future, that doesn't change the numbers behind the tech. 

Now, I think the NextBox and the PS4 are going to be more powerful than the Wii U. But I think both Microsoft and Sony realized, thanks to Nintendo, that better graphics are not going to be enough next gen.  I don't think they'll release consoles that will cost more than 500$. Which I think is the sweet spot for a console that strives to be cutting edge while being affordable. And even that may be too expensive in most people's eyes.

@bold
That's just it though, IT IS comparable. Even Nintendo's first party or the 3rd party exclusives aren't showing off this consoles "true" power.

@underlined
More power gets you more than just better graphics. It gets your better AI, better physics, bigger worlds, smoother gameplay....etc.

Indeed, right? Like God od War 2 was comparable to the early current gen games when it came out.  Compare it to games now. ¬_¬