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Forums - Politics Discussion - US Senate candidate: Pregnancy from rape can be ‘something that God intended to happen’

Max King of the Wild said:
gigaSheik said:
What if God doesn't exist?



What if morality doesn't exist?

The utility of morality (as a thing all its own) can be proven to exist. Take a look at Kant (although Kant was fairly religious, his writings on the Categorical Imperative do a good job of showing in a non-religious way how the metaphysics of ethics work without there needing to be a supreme being who just "makes" it work).



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That's a nice way to spin it.



gigaSheik said:
Max King of the Wild said:
gigaSheik said:
What if God doesn't exist?



What if morality doesn't exist?


Does it? What is imoral to u can be normal to some1 else. Like menage a trois, swing, etc.



Exactly. Morals are completely made up by men. This guy decides to base his moral code off of a religious being. Other people will base it off of equally flawed ways



bluesinG said:
kain_kusanagi said:

You guys all need to calm down. It's clear that the act of rape is not what he was talking about. What he was talking about was the gift of life. That something as wonderful as a child can result from such a terrible thing as rape was his point. Rape is a horrible thing, but the life that is created is innocent and pure. The child concieved should not be regarded as a byproduct to discard, but instead loved as any other unborn child deserves.

Anyone that thinks the man believes God likes rape is either an idiot or a full on hate troll.

I don't think that Mourdock believes God likes rape. I think he believes that when a rape results in pregnancy, that pregnancy is "part of God's plan". That's what he said, and he's stood by that comment.

I disagree with Mourdock about that; I don't think that God intends women to become pregnant as the result of rape. Do you?

No I don't and that's not what he said. He didn't say it's God's plan. Here's his full quote: "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God," Mourdock said. "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

It is perfectly clear to me that Mourdock is saying the life created from the rape is sacred, not the act of rape.

He said it badly, but Let's break it down:

"life is that gift from God"

"horrible situation of rape"

"when life begins"

"God intended to happen."

What's he is saying is life is a gift from God even when it comes from rape. He's not saying God puts rapists in the path of women to create life, and he isn't saying that God's plan is for women to be raped. He is only talking about what God intents for the child. God loves all children regardless of how they were conceived.

Here is his explanation:

"What I said was, in answering the question form my position of faith, I said I believe that God creates life. I believe that as wholly and as fully as I can believe it. That God creates life," Mourdock said. "Are you trying to suggest that somehow I think that God pre-ordained rape? No, I don't think that. That's sick. Twisted. That's not even close to what I said. What I said is that God creates life."

People are taking this man's words and extrapolating negative intent for political ends. In my opinion they are intentionally misrepresenting him, while knowing what he meant isn't even news worthy.



Tigerlure said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That's a nice way to spin it.


There`s no spin to it, believe me.



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kain_kusanagi said:
bluesinG said:
kain_kusanagi said:

You guys all need to calm down. It's clear that the act of rape is not what he was talking about. What he was talking about was the gift of life. That something as wonderful as a child can result from such a terrible thing as rape was his point. Rape is a horrible thing, but the life that is created is innocent and pure. The child concieved should not be regarded as a byproduct to discard, but instead loved as any other unborn child deserves.

Anyone that thinks the man believes God likes rape is either an idiot or a full on hate troll.

I don't think that Mourdock believes God likes rape. I think he believes that when a rape results in pregnancy, that pregnancy is "part of God's plan". That's what he said, and he's stood by that comment.

I disagree with Mourdock about that; I don't think that God intends women to become pregnant as the result of rape. Do you?

No I don't and that's not what he said. He didn't say it's God's plan. Here's his full quote: "I struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is that gift from God," Mourdock said. "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."

It is perfectly clear to me that Mourdock is saying the life created from the rape is sacred, not the act of rape.

He said it badly, but Let's break it down:

"life is that gift from God"

"horrible situation of rape"

"when life begins"

"God intended to happen."

What's he is saying is life is a gift from God even when it comes from rape. He's not saying God puts rapists in the path of women to create life, and he isn't saying that God's plan is for women to be raped. He is only talking about what God intents for the child. God loves all children regardless of how they were conceived.

Here is his explanation:

"What I said was, in answering the question form my position of faith, I said I believe that God creates life. I believe that as wholly and as fully as I can believe it. That God creates life," Mourdock said. "Are you trying to suggest that somehow I think that God pre-ordained rape? No, I don't think that. That's sick. Twisted. That's not even close to what I said. What I said is that God creates life."

People are taking this man's words and extrapolating negative intent for political ends. In my opinion they are intentionally misrepresenting him, while knowing what he meant isn't even news worthy.

Again, I don't think Mourdock is saying "God intends rapes to happen." I think he's saying "given that a rape has happened, if the woman gets pregnant from that rape, then God intended that pregnancy to happen." In other words, God doesn't have control over whether the rape happens, but He does have control over whether the woman gets pregnant.

I strongly disagree with that position, because I can't imagine that God intends for 30,000 raped women to become impregnated each year, in the USA alone. Do you really believe He intends for all of those raped women to become impregnated?



Max King of the Wild said:
bluesinG said:
Max King of the Wild said:
bluesinG said:

Two days later, Mitt Romney *still* refuses to answer reporters' questions about Mourdock's comments, withdraw his endorsement of Mourdock, or ask Mourdock to stop airing the campaign ad that Romney filmed for him. Ugh.

Mitt Romney Refuses To Answer Questions About Richard Mourdock At Campaign Stop In Cincinnati
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/25/mitt-romney-richard-mourdock_n_2016236.html

Why should he answer reporters? They are obviously looking for something to troll him on and report "news" and make money. This is ridiculous that you think he should waste his time answering questions on this guy when that guy can answer them better himself and to think Romney wants to talk about such an irrelevant non issue when our economy is in the shitter

Yes, the economy is a big issue. But pregnancy from rape is *also* a big issue. Each year, more than 30,000 American women become pregnant from rape.

I'd just like to hear Romney say something like this: "I don't believe that rapes resulting in pregnancy are a part of God's plan. That's why I've decided to withdraw my formal endorsement of Richard Mourdock's senate candidacy, and why I now ask him to stop airing a TV ad featuring my endorsement."

That's all he'd have to say. It would literally take less than a minute. Both Romney and Obama spend hours each day talking about the economy. Why couldn't Romney take one minute to express his view on this issue?

Cite for the 30,000 per year number: http://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(96)70141-2/abstract


Abstracts are terrible sources. You would fail if you used that on an essay first of all.

As for the 30,000 number... they say 5% of rapes produce pregnancy which is 30,000 a year... you think there are more than 600,000 rapes a year in America?

Fine, here's another source, a report by the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (i.e., doctors who provide health care for pregnant women). Two key statements:

"Key findings of the National Violence Against Women survey reveal that there are more than 300,000 rape-related physical assaults against women annually. Approximately 18% of women surveyed reported that they had been the victim of a completed or attempted rape during their lifetime."

"Sexual assault is associated with a risk of pregnancy and contributes to unintended pregnancy in the United States. The national rape-related pregnancy rate is calculated to be 5% per rape among females aged 12-45 years. This would be equivalent to approximately 32,000 pregnancies as a result of rape each year."

It might be shocking to hear that so many women are raped each year, and that almost one in five American women are raped at some point in their life. It's certainly tragic. But those are the facts. And that's why rape-related pregnancy is an important issue.

http://www.acog.org/Resources_And_Publications/Committee_Opinions/Committee_on_Health_Care_for_Underserved_Women/Sexual_Assault



DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  



...

Torillian said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  

Well said. Carrying a rape-induced pregnancy to term should be the woman's choice, not something forced on her by the government.



Mr Khan said:
happydolphin said:
Proclus said:
Fucking idiot.

Pardon my French.

I still don't get what is so idiotic about it. The person said the obvious: the baby was born, and that is a miracle of life.

Question, what if you were that baby? Yes, you would want to be born regardless, because that's what fighters do, they strive to survive and live life to the fullest.

The person even clearly said they thought rape was wrong. Anyways.

If i have no consciousness, i can't think.

While i believe abortion is not a decision to be made lightly, unborn babies have no "life" in the sense of human, sacred and inviolable life. Theirs is on the level of animal life, which is also not meant to be disposed of lightly, but lacks that core aspect of "self" that grants inherent human rights.

so then when does the child earn human status? at 3 months pregnant,  6 months, 9 months, what about after its born, 1 week, 1 year. when? when does it earn the right to be called human?

humans get pregnant with humans, thats how biology works.