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Forums - Politics Discussion - Election time, who did you vote for?

 

Which presidential candidate will you vote for?

Barack Obama 356 55.89%
 
Mitt Romney 137 21.51%
 
Gary Johnson 38 5.97%
 
Jill Stein 15 2.35%
 
Somebody else 87 13.66%
 
Total:633
RenderMonk on 25 October 2012
gergroy said:
@RenderMonk

Look, I have been pretty clear that I don't like either Obama or Romney. Would it make you feel better if I tell you why I dislike Romney as well? I think Romney has been incredibly vague and hard to pin down this entire election cycle. He waffles on issues all the freaking time. I don't see his tax plan as really doing all that much and the fact that he has completely removed the option for revenue increases don't sit very well with me. I dislike how he is always talking about how important paying down the deficit is, but then doesn't say how he will do it.

There are lots of reasons why I dislike Romney, just like there are lots of reasons as to why I dislike Obama. The reason I'm going to vote for Romney has less to do with Romney and more about giving somebody else a shot. Romney does have a pretty good biography and it is possible that he could do a better job. The thing is, I have seen how Obama performed as president, and I didn't like it. So I'm voting for the other guy with a chance of winning. Simple as that.


First off, let me apologize for forgetting to talk about the minimum wage part. There was just some much to adderss about what you said, that I misses that part. And to be fair, I can't remember where I heard it, nor can I find a link to it where that was said. The only quote I have from google search is where Romney said "the best thing to do is to remove minimum wage laws and let individuals decide what they want to charge for their labor." I wish I could remember or find it, but I cannot. But I think from the statement that Romney made, that it's clear what would happen. People would vote to remove minimum wage laws, thinking they would be able to charge whatever they wanted for their labor, but what would actually happen, is no employer would agree to it. And then without a minimum wage law to fall back on, the new to be employee would be screwed. But, since I can't provide any links, I doesn't really matter, so I will conceed that point.

As for the you saying why you would vote for Romeny over Obama, that's basically what I was getting at. To tell me WHY you're voting for him. And not just because "let's give someone else a shot." He's never been president, and has no idea what it will take to do the things the American people need. Obama has been in office, and with another term, would have more opportunity to continue the positive work he's started thus far.

You also mentioned again that the tax on small businesses being one of your concerns...the president adressed that in the debates. Saying that those facts are being distorted by the republicans like all things. That the tax is heaviest on the biggest of the small business owners. So it comes down to defining what small business is. So who do you believe? Romney or the President? After hearing Romney lie over and over again, just to secure the votes, I believe Obama. Who's kept a straight forward message time and time again. When something goes wrong, he takes responsibility for it, he doesn't lie and/or cover it up. (think about the Lybia discussion in the 2nd debate)

My point is, if you're running for President of the United States, you are supposed to get up there and give an account of your beliefes and what you would do as president, so people can make an informed choice. Obama has done that. Romney on the other hand, has changed his position to many times to count! His own party doesn't even know what he believes, how can the american people, or more specifically YOU, for that matter, know what he believes and would do in office?

I would encourage you to try and see both candidates for what they are, and what they are saying. If you still want to vote for Romney, that's your right as a citizen. Just be sure you're voting for him for the right reasons, because you know what stands for, and KNOW who he is/what he will do. His own party doesn't know, I'm glad that you do.



Check out my Gaming Website www.LiveLootLevel.com View my game blog, read some reviews, and leave a comment with your thoughts. Thanks for taking the time guys.

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RenderMonk on 25 October 2012
Kasz216 said:
MSNBC's slogan is "Lean Forward".

If you can't see a liberal bias at MSNBC... i'd argue you probably aren't looking...

because it's right in the slogan.


I'm trying to figure out if you're being serious or joking? Now be sure before you answer, is that MSNBC's slogan? Or is it the slogan of a specific show on MSNBC? As I said earlier, MSNBC has shows that are clearly left focused and shows that are clearly right focused. Unlike Fox, who is ONLY right focused, which is why I say not to get your "news" from them.



Check out my Gaming Website www.LiveLootLevel.com View my game blog, read some reviews, and leave a comment with your thoughts. Thanks for taking the time guys.

gergroy on 25 October 2012
RenderMonk said:
gergroy said:
@RenderMonk

Look, I have been pretty clear that I don't like either Obama or Romney. Would it make you feel better if I tell you why I dislike Romney as well? I think Romney has been incredibly vague and hard to pin down this entire election cycle. He waffles on issues all the freaking time. I don't see his tax plan as really doing all that much and the fact that he has completely removed the option for revenue increases don't sit very well with me. I dislike how he is always talking about how important paying down the deficit is, but then doesn't say how he will do it.

There are lots of reasons why I dislike Romney, just like there are lots of reasons as to why I dislike Obama. The reason I'm going to vote for Romney has less to do with Romney and more about giving somebody else a shot. Romney does have a pretty good biography and it is possible that he could do a better job. The thing is, I have seen how Obama performed as president, and I didn't like it. So I'm voting for the other guy with a chance of winning. Simple as that.


First off, let me apologize for forgetting to talk about the minimum wage part. There was just some much to adderss about what you said, that I misses that part. And to be fair, I can't remember where I heard it, nor can I find a link to it where that was said. The only quote I have from google search is where Romney said "the best thing to do is to remove minimum wage laws and let individuals decide what they want to charge for their labor." I wish I could remember or find it, but I cannot. But I think from the statement that Romney made, that it's clear what would happen. People would vote to remove minimum wage laws, thinking they would be able to charge whatever they wanted for their labor, but what would actually happen, is no employer would agree to it. And then without a minimum wage law to fall back on, the new to be employee would be screwed. But, since I can't provide any links, I doesn't really matter, so I will conceed that point.

As for the you saying why you would vote for Romeny over Obama, that's basically what I was getting at. To tell me WHY you're voting for him. And not just because "let's give someone else a shot." He's never been president, and has no idea what it will take to do the things the American people need. Obama has been in office, and with another term, would have more opportunity to continue the positive work he's started thus far.

You also mentioned again that the tax on small businesses being one of your concerns...the president adressed that in the debates. Saying that those facts are being distorted by the republicans like all things. That the tax is heaviest on the biggest of the small business owners. So it comes down to defining what small business is. So who do you believe? Romney or the President? After hearing Romney lie over and over again, just to secure the votes, I believe Obama. Who's kept a straight forward message time and time again. When something goes wrong, he takes responsibility for it, he doesn't lie and/or cover it up. (think about the Lybia discussion in the 2nd debate)

My point is, if you're running for President of the United States, you are supposed to get up there and give an account of your beliefes and what you would do as president, so people can make an informed choice. Obama has done that. Romney on the other hand, has changed his position to many times to count! His own party doesn't even know what he believes, how can the american people, or more specifically YOU, for that matter, know what he believes and would do in office?

I would encourage you to try and see both candidates for what they are, and what they are saying. If you still want to vote for Romney, that's your right as a citizen. Just be sure you're voting for him for the right reasons, because you know what stands for, and KNOW who he is/what he will do. His own party doesn't know, I'm glad that you do.


you don't even understand what I'm talking about on the tax issue.  You are talking about their tax plans for small business, I'm talking about Obamacare.  Obamacare is a tax, according to the supreme court.  That tax increases the burden on small businesses by quite a bit, it was the wrong thing to focus on in the middle of an economic downturn and showed poor judgement and poor leadership skills on behalf of the president. 

Like I said, I don't like either of the candidates, but one of them will be president.  Obama has been president, and if he is anything like his first term then I don't want another term of Obama.  So I'm voting against somebody instead of for them, as is my right.  I know the issues, and I know where the candidates stand.  I think they are both crap, and on most issues they are exactly the same.  However, I would rather go with the untested candidate that could surprise and may end up being good instead of the one I know is bad.  You understand?

edit:  You think Obama has been consistent?  Do you want me to lay out all of Obama's waffles as well?  Neither of these candidates has been very consistent.  



gergroy on 25 October 2012
Kasz216 said:
MSNBC's slogan is "Lean Forward".

If you can't see a liberal bias at MSNBC... i'd argue you probably aren't looking...

because it's right in the slogan.

it's the partisan goggles, it helps people see what they want to see...



gergroy on 25 October 2012
RenderMonk said:
Kasz216 said:
MSNBC's slogan is "Lean Forward".

If you can't see a liberal bias at MSNBC... i'd argue you probably aren't looking...

because it's right in the slogan.


I'm trying to figure out if you're being serious or joking? Now be sure before you answer, is that MSNBC's slogan? Or is it the slogan of a specific show on MSNBC? As I said earlier, MSNBC has shows that are clearly left focused and shows that are clearly right focused. Unlike Fox, who is ONLY right focused, which is why I say not to get your "news" from them.

Just look at the wikipedia page for msnbc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSNBC



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bluesinG on 25 October 2012
RenderMonk said:
gergroy said:
bluesinG said:
gergroy said:
bluesinG said:
gergroy said:

General election mitt is actually pretty moderate.  Although I agree it is hard to know which mitt you are getting.  His history seems to indicate he would be a pretty moderate president though.

I worry about that. Mitt pretty much had to be a moderate Republican governer in Massachusetts, because the state legislature was 87% Democrat. The Republicans in congress today are a different story!

Yeah, but he comes from a pretty moderate family too.  I think the real Mitt is more moderate than people think.  However, he sure has made it hard for people to figure out what he actually stands for.  

Ultimately, I think Romney would be better at bipartisan efforts the Obama, he certainly has more experience with it.

I'm just not sure that there *is* a real Mitt. Pretty much the only positions he's consistently held over the past four years are that (a) he wants to be president, (b) he doesn't like Obama, and ( c) he wants to keep wealthy Americans from paying more taxes.


One position that he has been consistent on is increasing the minimum wage to match inflation.  Not exactly a popular position with republicans, but one that i like and one that would certainly help the poor.  


Listen to yourself...."ONE position that he has been consisten on...." If he isn't been consisten on anything, there's real cause for concern as to what he'd do as leader of the free world, America. And you went on to say that the one area whre he has been consisten on increasing minimum wage!! Are you kidding. He's said that he plans to get rid of minimum wage, completely!! He doesn't want to have it at all. He thinks employers should be able to pay their employees as little as they want!! Look it up. It's on the record. Please, please watch some news channels like MSNBC and don't watch Fox. It's so imperitive that you get educated on the issues, fast, so you can make a properly informed decision.

The thing is, Romney *has not* maintained a consistent position on even this one issue. He used to support adjusting the minimum wage for inflation, until conservative pundits expressed their disapproval. Then he completely reversed his position. Here's one article covering the flip-flop.

After Outcry from Right, Mitt Romney Reverses Stance on Minimum Wage
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/outcry-mitt-romney-reverses-stance-minimum-wage-181557691.html

If you google Romney minimum wage, you can find a lot more articles about it. This just reinforces my fear that, if elected, Romney wouldn't have the backbone to stand up to the extreme wing of the Republican party.



gergroy on 25 October 2012
bluesinG said:
RenderMonk said:
gergroy said:
bluesinG said:
gergroy said:
bluesinG said:
gergroy said:

General election mitt is actually pretty moderate.  Although I agree it is hard to know which mitt you are getting.  His history seems to indicate he would be a pretty moderate president though.

I worry about that. Mitt pretty much had to be a moderate Republican governer in Massachusetts, because the state legislature was 87% Democrat. The Republicans in congress today are a different story!

Yeah, but he comes from a pretty moderate family too.  I think the real Mitt is more moderate than people think.  However, he sure has made it hard for people to figure out what he actually stands for.  

Ultimately, I think Romney would be better at bipartisan efforts the Obama, he certainly has more experience with it.

I'm just not sure that there *is* a real Mitt. Pretty much the only positions he's consistently held over the past four years are that (a) he wants to be president, (b) he doesn't like Obama, and ( c) he wants to keep wealthy Americans from paying more taxes.


One position that he has been consistent on is increasing the minimum wage to match inflation.  Not exactly a popular position with republicans, but one that i like and one that would certainly help the poor.  


Listen to yourself...."ONE position that he has been consisten on...." If he isn't been consisten on anything, there's real cause for concern as to what he'd do as leader of the free world, America. And you went on to say that the one area whre he has been consisten on increasing minimum wage!! Are you kidding. He's said that he plans to get rid of minimum wage, completely!! He doesn't want to have it at all. He thinks employers should be able to pay their employees as little as they want!! Look it up. It's on the record. Please, please watch some news channels like MSNBC and don't watch Fox. It's so imperitive that you get educated on the issues, fast, so you can make a properly informed decision.

The thing is, Romney *has not* maintained a consistent position on even this one issue. He used to support adjusting the minimum wage for inflation, until conservative pundits expressed their disapproval. Then he completely reversed his position. Here's one article covering the flip-flop.

After Outcry from Right, Mitt Romney Reverses Stance on Minimum Wage
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/outcry-mitt-romney-reverses-stance-minimum-wage-181557691.html

If you google Romney minimum wage, you can find a lot more articles about it. This just reinforces my fear that, if elected, Romney wouldn't have the backbone to stand up to the extreme wing of the Republican party.

nah, read the full transcript.  They are just taking one line out of context.  He has been consistent on it.  



bluesinG on 25 October 2012
gergroy said:
bluesinG said:
RenderMonk said:
gergroy said:
bluesinG said:
gergroy said:
bluesinG said:
gergroy said:

General election mitt is actually pretty moderate.  Although I agree it is hard to know which mitt you are getting.  His history seems to indicate he would be a pretty moderate president though.

I worry about that. Mitt pretty much had to be a moderate Republican governer in Massachusetts, because the state legislature was 87% Democrat. The Republicans in congress today are a different story!

Yeah, but he comes from a pretty moderate family too.  I think the real Mitt is more moderate than people think.  However, he sure has made it hard for people to figure out what he actually stands for.  

Ultimately, I think Romney would be better at bipartisan efforts the Obama, he certainly has more experience with it.

I'm just not sure that there *is* a real Mitt. Pretty much the only positions he's consistently held over the past four years are that (a) he wants to be president, (b) he doesn't like Obama, and ( c) he wants to keep wealthy Americans from paying more taxes.


One position that he has been consistent on is increasing the minimum wage to match inflation.  Not exactly a popular position with republicans, but one that i like and one that would certainly help the poor.  


Listen to yourself...."ONE position that he has been consisten on...." If he isn't been consisten on anything, there's real cause for concern as to what he'd do as leader of the free world, America. And you went on to say that the one area whre he has been consisten on increasing minimum wage!! Are you kidding. He's said that he plans to get rid of minimum wage, completely!! He doesn't want to have it at all. He thinks employers should be able to pay their employees as little as they want!! Look it up. It's on the record. Please, please watch some news channels like MSNBC and don't watch Fox. It's so imperitive that you get educated on the issues, fast, so you can make a properly informed decision.

The thing is, Romney *has not* maintained a consistent position on even this one issue. He used to support adjusting the minimum wage for inflation, until conservative pundits expressed their disapproval. Then he completely reversed his position. Here's one article covering the flip-flop.

After Outcry from Right, Mitt Romney Reverses Stance on Minimum Wage
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/outcry-mitt-romney-reverses-stance-minimum-wage-181557691.html

If you google Romney minimum wage, you can find a lot more articles about it. This just reinforces my fear that, if elected, Romney wouldn't have the backbone to stand up to the extreme wing of the Republican party.

nah, read the full transcript.  They are just taking one line out of context.  He has been consistent on it.  

Romney expressed his support for raising the minimum wage in February. Then conservative pundits freaked out. Then, in March, Romney said "there's probably no need to raise the minimum wage." To my knowledge, that's the last time he said anything about the minimum wage. I used google to search for "minimum wage" on Romney's campaign website, and couldn't find anything supporting an increase in the minimum wage.

If you can find a more recent quote from Romney expressing support for raising the minimum wage, please post it.



Kasz216 on 25 October 2012
RenderMonk said:
Kasz216 said:
MSNBC's slogan is "Lean Forward".

If you can't see a liberal bias at MSNBC... i'd argue you probably aren't looking...

because it's right in the slogan.


I'm trying to figure out if you're being serious or joking? Now be sure before you answer, is that MSNBC's slogan? Or is it the slogan of a specific show on MSNBC? As I said earlier, MSNBC has shows that are clearly left focused and shows that are clearly right focused. Unlike Fox, who is ONLY right focused, which is why I say not to get your "news" from them.

It's the entire networks slogan.

MSNBC, once the also-ran but now the No. 2 cable news channel, has a new tagline that embraces its progressive political identity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/business/media/05adco.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=msnbc&st=cse&

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39851953http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/us/politics/msnbc-as-foxs-liberal-evil-twin.html

 

They don't even try and hide the fact that they're a liberal news network... in fact they activly promote that fact.

If you can't see it... like I said... you must not be looking.

 

MSNBC doesn't have any shows that are "Clearly right focusesd".   Morning Joe is as close as you would get... and Joe Scarbourgh while a republican senator is really more of a moderate... and his co-host... is far from a moderate.



bluesinG on 25 October 2012
Kasz216 said:
RenderMonk said:
Kasz216 said:
MSNBC's slogan is "Lean Forward".

If you can't see a liberal bias at MSNBC... i'd argue you probably aren't looking...

because it's right in the slogan.


I'm trying to figure out if you're being serious or joking? Now be sure before you answer, is that MSNBC's slogan? Or is it the slogan of a specific show on MSNBC? As I said earlier, MSNBC has shows that are clearly left focused and shows that are clearly right focused. Unlike Fox, who is ONLY right focused, which is why I say not to get your "news" from them.

It's the entire networks slogan.

MSNBC, once the also-ran but now the No. 2 cable news channel, has a new tagline that embraces its progressive political identity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/business/media/05adco.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=msnbc&st=cse&

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39851953http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/us/politics/msnbc-as-foxs-liberal-evil-twin.html

 

They don't even try and hide the fact that they're a liberal news network... in fact they activly promote that fact.

If you can't see it... like I said... you must not be looking.

 

MSNBC doesn't have any shows that are "Clearly right focusesd".   Morning Joe is as close as you would get... and Joe Scarbourgh while a republican senator is really more of a moderate... and his co-host... is far from a moderate.

It's true. If you want unbiased coverage, Fox and MSNBC are definitely worse than ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN.