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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U "surprisingly powerful," textures "could be used in a movie."

JEMC on 24 October 2012
selnor said:
JEMC said:

Disc size won't limit the game as WiiU uses 25GB discs (maybe 50Gb with dual layer discs), which will be enough. And why do you bring to this discussion the PC? The PC version will look miles better than any other version of the game, being the WiiU or the PS4/nextbox ones, no surprise here.

Will the game run at 720p on WiiU? Maybe. Will it run at 1080p on the other next gen consoles? Maybe. We don't know because we know almost nothing about it, therefore asuming that the WiiU version will look worse is only your opinion, and I disagree.

And those 1GB (by now) of RAM won't be a limit now. In 3 years it probably will, but not so early in the gen.

512 mb in 360 ps3 has been an issue for years. Because its one thing saying the entire screen res is 720p but half the problem of textures not being crisp and beautiful is the resolution of those textures. This all becomes so important the more the machine can do. By 2015 I fully expect even with the rumoured 8 gb ram the nextbox will have maybe 2016 that some devs will want more than that.

All the big guns Crytek, Epic, ID Software, EA etc have asked for much more ram in the next generation than what they upped it to this gen. Hence why I firmly believe the several rumours that Nextbox is 8 gb ram and 12 cores of which 8 cores are for games.

As Watchdogs is being released next year, The nextbox with those specs will easily match the PC version and then some. The Wii U is not going to struggle on GPU. It will struggle as the HD consoles of this gen have the last 4 years. On Ram. Look at Skyrim on PS3. Look at Fallout 3 on PS3 and that was halfway through the generation.

The more I look at the Wii U the more I realise its gonna suffer in Hardware. Because the ram is just to much of an issue. Devs were saying 3 years ago they wish PS3 and 360 had 1 gb ram and that that would help games be much better. 3 years on from that Wii U is releasing with the same ram available that console devs were asking for 3 years ago. Not enough. Wii U should have had at least 4 gb ram for games. At least.

I do agree with you that in 3 years the amount of RAM the WiiU has may be a problem, but not now.

Skyrim and Fallout have problems on PS3 not only because of RAM but also because Bethesda has sucked this gen with PS3. Their problems are pretty much summed with Dawnguard. They haven't mastered how to code well on PS3 and they have all kinds of problems.

Devs asking that much RAM is absurd. Not even PCs need that much RAM with a lot more things going on. I take those coments as a negotiation: console makers offer 2GB -  devs ask for 8 - makers go up to 4 and devs say that ok, that they will "try to deal with that limitation" when it's clear that those 4GBwere their target.

About Watchdogs looking better on the nextbox/PS4 because they will be more powerful will be, in part, countered by the fact that devs will have had more time developing for WiiU and will be able to optimize the game to run on it even though its lack of power compared to the other consoles. Yes, maybe it will run at 720p in WiiU and 1080p on the others, but many won't notice the difference.



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Viper1 on 24 October 2012
selnor said:

That still doesnt compensate for a loss of 7 gb ram compred to competiton. Lets say nextbox has 2 gb for system and games has 6 gb available. Thats still 5x the amount of ram. Not forgetting the same 5 rumours of Nextbox devkits have said 512 mb EDRam also. 

I am worried for the Wii U for certain games from 3rd paties. For example I dont expect to see my fave RPG Elder Scrolls on it. Definately not Elder Scrolls 6 anyway. I believe the ram issue will bite it. 

I hope Im wrong. But theres quite a few developers I feel will just not build a Wii U version due to the cuts it will need because of ram. 

Another thing that caught my attention was how inferior the Nintendo Graphics demos were of Wii U compared to CryEngine 3 next gen demos and Unreal Engine 4. The latter 2 killed the Zelda demo and the wierd lake with bird demo Nintendo had. Not to mention the Samaritan demo running on realtime Unreal 4 development. 

I am worried.

Skyrim itself was a very small game.  Only 5 GB's.    That means scene textures would not need much.   You could easily stream that amount.

And Skyrim's problem on the PS3 was due to the save file size getting too big, not a RAM issue.

8 GB's on the next Xbox....not going to happen.

And those game engine demos were running using super powerful PC's.   The Samaritan demo first ran on 3 GTX 580's in SLI.  If you are expecting that kind of power from Sony and MS, prepare yourself for major dissapointment.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Ganoncrotch on 24 October 2012
selnor said:
JEMC said:
selnor said:
JEMC said:

Actually, a lot of people will care, given the appropiate "ifs", being the most important one if the game launches on WiiU (after all it hasn't been announced and at E3 they were very vague when asked about a possible WiiU version of the game).

IF the game looks as good as the nextbox/PS4 versions. There is no reason to belive that it will look worse than the other versions, after all developers will have had the final WiiU dev kits for more than 1 year and will be more comfortable and used to develop for WiiU than for the other consoles, giving them the extra knowledge to get that bit more from the console to compensate the lack of raw power compared to its counterparts..

IF the console is 50 or 100 €/$/£ cheaper than the other ones. Why should you buy the other consoles for that game when you can buy the WiiU and the game for the price of those consoles?

IF they make good use of the Gamepad. In the game the character uses a tablet/smartphone to hack or control other devices. Devs could use the gamepad's screen to do that, making the players feel more involved in the game. Will the other consoles do that? Not that we know (and don't say the smartglass thing of Microsoft because that means buying 2 devices as well as having to let the pad to use the tablet and then pick up the pad again, something wouldn't happen with WiiU)


If Watchdogs comes to Wii U it will be severely gimped visually. 1 because of disc size and 2 because it only has 1 gbram for games. Watchdogs will not look like the PC game on Wii U. 1080p native rayman is one thing. 1080p native Watchdogs is another. I would expect 720p native with texture and draw distance drops on Wii U bare minimum. Ram is now so important, as devs wanted 1 gig on 360 and PS3 te last 2 years not 1 gig for a new console.

Disc size won't limit the game as WiiU uses 25GB discs (maybe 50Gb with dual layer discs), which will be enough. And why do you bring to this discussion the PC? The PC version will look miles better than any other version of the game, being the WiiU or the PS4/nextbox ones, no surprise here.

Will the game run at 720p on WiiU? Maybe. Will it run at 1080p on the other next gen consoles? Maybe. We don't know because we know almost nothing about it, therefore asuming that the WiiU version will look worse is only your opinion, and I disagree.

And those 1GB (by now) of RAM won't be a limit now. In 3 years it probably will, but not so early in the gen.

512 mb in 360 ps3 has been an issue for years. Because its one thing saying the entire screen res is 720p but half the problem of textures not being crisp and beautiful is the resolution of those textures. This all becomes so important the more the machine can do. By 2015 I fully expect even with the rumoured 8 gb ram the nextbox will have maybe 2016 that some devs will want more than that. 

All the big guns Crytek, Epic, ID Software, EA etc have asked for much more ram in the next generation than what they upped it to this gen. Hence why I firmly believe the several rumours that Nextbox is 8 gb ram and 12 cores of which 8 cores are for games.

As Watchdogs is being released next year, The nextbox with those specs will easily match the PC version and then some. The Wii U is not going to struggle on GPU. It will struggle as the HD consoles of this gen have the last 4 years. On Ram. Look at Skyrim on PS3. Look at Fallout 3 on PS3 and that was halfway through the generation.

The more I look at the Wii U the more I realise its gonna suffer in Hardware. Because the ram is just to much of an issue. Devs were saying 3 years ago they wish PS3 and 360 had 1 gb ram and that that would help games be much better. 3 years on from that Wii U is releasing with the same ram available that console devs were asking for 3 years ago. Not enough. Wii U should have had at least 4 gb ram for games. At least. 

Using the bethesda games running on the ps3 as an example of what the current generations hardware limitations are would be like saying that if you look at Star Trek Legacys' absolutely awful PC port of the Xbox360 game as an example of the limitations of PC gaming. This is an issue with Porting games back and forth and nothing really to do with hardware, other than it not being exactly the same in all consoles and PC's(thankfully).



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

selnor on 24 October 2012
Viper1 said:
selnor said:

That still doesnt compensate for a loss of 7 gb ram compred to competiton. Lets say nextbox has 2 gb for system and games has 6 gb available. Thats still 5x the amount of ram. Not forgetting the same 5 rumours of Nextbox devkits have said 512 mb EDRam also. 

I am worried for the Wii U for certain games from 3rd paties. For example I dont expect to see my fave RPG Elder Scrolls on it. Definately not Elder Scrolls 6 anyway. I believe the ram issue will bite it. 

I hope Im wrong. But theres quite a few developers I feel will just not build a Wii U version due to the cuts it will need because of ram. 

Another thing that caught my attention was how inferior the Nintendo Graphics demos were of Wii U compared to CryEngine 3 next gen demos and Unreal Engine 4. The latter 2 killed the Zelda demo and the wierd lake with bird demo Nintendo had. Not to mention the Samaritan demo running on realtime Unreal 4 development. 

I am worried.

Skyrim itself was a very small game.  Only 5 GB's.    That means scene textures would not need much.   You could easily stream that amount.

And Skyrim's problem on the PS3 was due to the save file size getting too big, not a RAM issue.

8 GB's on the next Xbox....not going to happen.

And those game engine demos were running using super powerful PC's.   The Samaritan demo first ran on 3 GTX 580's in SLI.  If you are expecting that kind of power from Sony and MS, prepare yourself for major dissapointment.


So you havent seen the demo running on 1 card yet?



selnor on 24 October 2012
ganoncrotch said:
selnor said:
JEMC said:
selnor said:
JEMC said:

Actually, a lot of people will care, given the appropiate "ifs", being the most important one if the game launches on WiiU (after all it hasn't been announced and at E3 they were very vague when asked about a possible WiiU version of the game).

IF the game looks as good as the nextbox/PS4 versions. There is no reason to belive that it will look worse than the other versions, after all developers will have had the final WiiU dev kits for more than 1 year and will be more comfortable and used to develop for WiiU than for the other consoles, giving them the extra knowledge to get that bit more from the console to compensate the lack of raw power compared to its counterparts..

IF the console is 50 or 100 €/$/£ cheaper than the other ones. Why should you buy the other consoles for that game when you can buy the WiiU and the game for the price of those consoles?

IF they make good use of the Gamepad. In the game the character uses a tablet/smartphone to hack or control other devices. Devs could use the gamepad's screen to do that, making the players feel more involved in the game. Will the other consoles do that? Not that we know (and don't say the smartglass thing of Microsoft because that means buying 2 devices as well as having to let the pad to use the tablet and then pick up the pad again, something wouldn't happen with WiiU)


If Watchdogs comes to Wii U it will be severely gimped visually. 1 because of disc size and 2 because it only has 1 gbram for games. Watchdogs will not look like the PC game on Wii U. 1080p native rayman is one thing. 1080p native Watchdogs is another. I would expect 720p native with texture and draw distance drops on Wii U bare minimum. Ram is now so important, as devs wanted 1 gig on 360 and PS3 te last 2 years not 1 gig for a new console.

Disc size won't limit the game as WiiU uses 25GB discs (maybe 50Gb with dual layer discs), which will be enough. And why do you bring to this discussion the PC? The PC version will look miles better than any other version of the game, being the WiiU or the PS4/nextbox ones, no surprise here.

Will the game run at 720p on WiiU? Maybe. Will it run at 1080p on the other next gen consoles? Maybe. We don't know because we know almost nothing about it, therefore asuming that the WiiU version will look worse is only your opinion, and I disagree.

And those 1GB (by now) of RAM won't be a limit now. In 3 years it probably will, but not so early in the gen.

512 mb in 360 ps3 has been an issue for years. Because its one thing saying the entire screen res is 720p but half the problem of textures not being crisp and beautiful is the resolution of those textures. This all becomes so important the more the machine can do. By 2015 I fully expect even with the rumoured 8 gb ram the nextbox will have maybe 2016 that some devs will want more than that. 

All the big guns Crytek, Epic, ID Software, EA etc have asked for much more ram in the next generation than what they upped it to this gen. Hence why I firmly believe the several rumours that Nextbox is 8 gb ram and 12 cores of which 8 cores are for games.

As Watchdogs is being released next year, The nextbox with those specs will easily match the PC version and then some. The Wii U is not going to struggle on GPU. It will struggle as the HD consoles of this gen have the last 4 years. On Ram. Look at Skyrim on PS3. Look at Fallout 3 on PS3 and that was halfway through the generation.

The more I look at the Wii U the more I realise its gonna suffer in Hardware. Because the ram is just to much of an issue. Devs were saying 3 years ago they wish PS3 and 360 had 1 gb ram and that that would help games be much better. 3 years on from that Wii U is releasing with the same ram available that console devs were asking for 3 years ago. Not enough. Wii U should have had at least 4 gb ram for games. At least. 

Using the bethesda games running on the ps3 as an example of what the current generations hardware limitations are would be like saying that if you look at Star Trek Legacys' absolutely awful PC port of the Xbox360 game as an example of the limitations of PC gaming. This is an issue with Porting games back and forth and nothing really to do with hardware, other than it not being exactly the same in all consoles and PC's(thankfully).

I listen to the devs. And they say its the ram so. Sorry I dont often listen to just anybody else concerning a game that they didnt make.



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Viper1 on 24 October 2012
selnor said:


So you havent seen the demo running on 1 card yet?

I have.  1 GTX 680.    Did I not say, " The Samaritan demo first ran on 3 GTX 580's in SLI."?   Doesn't "first ran" imply that I already know a newer demo ran on 1 card?

Again, if you are expecting that kind of power from Sony and MS's next console, go ahead and get ready for the disappointment.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Ganoncrotch on 24 October 2012
selnor said:
ganoncrotch said:
selnor said:
JEMC said:
selnor said:
JEMC said:

Actually, a lot of people will care, given the appropiate "ifs", being the most important one if the game launches on WiiU (after all it hasn't been announced and at E3 they were very vague when asked about a possible WiiU version of the game).

IF the game looks as good as the nextbox/PS4 versions. There is no reason to belive that it will look worse than the other versions, after all developers will have had the final WiiU dev kits for more than 1 year and will be more comfortable and used to develop for WiiU than for the other consoles, giving them the extra knowledge to get that bit more from the console to compensate the lack of raw power compared to its counterparts..

IF the console is 50 or 100 €/$/£ cheaper than the other ones. Why should you buy the other consoles for that game when you can buy the WiiU and the game for the price of those consoles?

IF they make good use of the Gamepad. In the game the character uses a tablet/smartphone to hack or control other devices. Devs could use the gamepad's screen to do that, making the players feel more involved in the game. Will the other consoles do that? Not that we know (and don't say the smartglass thing of Microsoft because that means buying 2 devices as well as having to let the pad to use the tablet and then pick up the pad again, something wouldn't happen with WiiU)


If Watchdogs comes to Wii U it will be severely gimped visually. 1 because of disc size and 2 because it only has 1 gbram for games. Watchdogs will not look like the PC game on Wii U. 1080p native rayman is one thing. 1080p native Watchdogs is another. I would expect 720p native with texture and draw distance drops on Wii U bare minimum. Ram is now so important, as devs wanted 1 gig on 360 and PS3 te last 2 years not 1 gig for a new console.

Disc size won't limit the game as WiiU uses 25GB discs (maybe 50Gb with dual layer discs), which will be enough. And why do you bring to this discussion the PC? The PC version will look miles better than any other version of the game, being the WiiU or the PS4/nextbox ones, no surprise here.

Will the game run at 720p on WiiU? Maybe. Will it run at 1080p on the other next gen consoles? Maybe. We don't know because we know almost nothing about it, therefore asuming that the WiiU version will look worse is only your opinion, and I disagree.

And those 1GB (by now) of RAM won't be a limit now. In 3 years it probably will, but not so early in the gen.

512 mb in 360 ps3 has been an issue for years. Because its one thing saying the entire screen res is 720p but half the problem of textures not being crisp and beautiful is the resolution of those textures. This all becomes so important the more the machine can do. By 2015 I fully expect even with the rumoured 8 gb ram the nextbox will have maybe 2016 that some devs will want more than that. 

All the big guns Crytek, Epic, ID Software, EA etc have asked for much more ram in the next generation than what they upped it to this gen. Hence why I firmly believe the several rumours that Nextbox is 8 gb ram and 12 cores of which 8 cores are for games.

As Watchdogs is being released next year, The nextbox with those specs will easily match the PC version and then some. The Wii U is not going to struggle on GPU. It will struggle as the HD consoles of this gen have the last 4 years. On Ram. Look at Skyrim on PS3. Look at Fallout 3 on PS3 and that was halfway through the generation.

The more I look at the Wii U the more I realise its gonna suffer in Hardware. Because the ram is just to much of an issue. Devs were saying 3 years ago they wish PS3 and 360 had 1 gb ram and that that would help games be much better. 3 years on from that Wii U is releasing with the same ram available that console devs were asking for 3 years ago. Not enough. Wii U should have had at least 4 gb ram for games. At least. 

Using the bethesda games running on the ps3 as an example of what the current generations hardware limitations are would be like saying that if you look at Star Trek Legacys' absolutely awful PC port of the Xbox360 game as an example of the limitations of PC gaming. This is an issue with Porting games back and forth and nothing really to do with hardware, other than it not being exactly the same in all consoles and PC's(thankfully).

I listen to the devs. And they say its the ram so. Sorry I dont often listen to just anybody else concerning a game that they didnt make.

You wont listen to the fact that you pluck one of the most poorly optimized games for a system and say that is the consoles fault? Okie then no point talking to you about any game then since I wasn't personally involved in the making of them I guess?



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

F0X on 24 October 2012
selnor said:
Viper1 said:

The major difference is the Wii U is very capable of texture streaming.  This means you don't need nearly as much RAM.

Say a stage or scene has 300 MB's of textures.   That's a lot of RAM to eat up.  But if you just stream the necessary textures that actually need rendering, you can reduce that load significantly.    In other words, you can have a stage or scene that requires more texture capacity than the RAM you actually have and it won't matter.

And don't forget the massive eDRAM.   That also reduces the need for a lot of standard RAM.

That still doesnt compensate for a loss of 7 gb ram compred to competiton. Lets say nextbox has 2 gb for system and games has 6 gb available. Thats still 5x the amount of ram. Not forgetting the same 5 rumours of Nextbox devkits have said 512 mb EDRam also. 

I am worried for the Wii U for certain games from 3rd paties. For example I dont expect to see my fave RPG Elder Scrolls on it. Definately not Elder Scrolls 6 anyway. I believe the ram issue will bite it. 

I hope Im wrong. But theres quite a few developers I feel will just not build a Wii U version due to the cuts it will need because of ram. 

Another thing that caught my attention was how inferior the Nintendo Graphics demos were of Wii U compared to CryEngine 3 next gen demos and Unreal Engine 4. The latter 2 killed the Zelda demo and the wierd lake with bird demo Nintendo had. Not to mention the Samaritan demo running on realtime Unreal 4 development. 

I am worried.


Those Wii U demos were made with the earliest versions of the hardware. UE4 is very far into development.



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