MrBubbles said: animal dairy products arent natural for humans to consume. also completely awful for you. lets put the meat on hold for now...and work on getting on without dairy filth.

Quite true, however diary products allow several vegetarians to avoid meat (including me). And if your reasons are rather political, that's a good alternative.

MrBubbles said: animal dairy products arent natural for humans to consume. also completely awful for you. lets put the meat on hold for now...and work on getting on without dairy filth.

Most Western civilisations adapted to milk and dairy products after domestication. So for them, milk is completely natural. Less so for Asian society where lactose intolerance is fairly common.

benao87 said: It depends on what you want to consider relevant, and the structure of your values. Very subjective. Personally, I'm vegetarian, and recently I've only find reasons to keep being one. I'd add to the OP, the unsustainable way in which meat is produced. It's just not efficient, and it wouldn't matter under normal circumstances, but there are just way too many humans in this world, and we won't be able to spare all that grain and water just to produce meat. Some comments here ....., nvm. But, I think that there are as many annoying vegetarians/vegans, as annoying meat-eaters. ....nvm. I liked meat, a lot, it didn't matter. If you just want to do it, it doesn't matter. If you don't, well it doesn't matter either. Moral and values are a very subjective thing, then you would have to decide it for yourself. If you are still deciding, and you consider my opinion relevant, I can further explain my position.

If you wouldn't mind, I'm interested.

Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest

Excellent OP, Jay.

It certainly is morally wrong to eat meat. We have absolutely no right to do it, we just take that right and make up excuses. And what's even more perverted, we then have the stomach to pretend we're humane and preach about moral values, human rights, discrimination, equality, anti-racism and such nonsense.

I am a vegetarian btw.

IIIIITHE1IIIII said: If their lives and deaths are relatively free from pain I don't see a problem with eating their meat. It's not like animals will have some sort of valuable lives and have a great impact on their - or other species' future. An animal's life is all about feeling good or feeling bad. If they feel good throughout their lives it doesn't matter if we make it a bit shorter, in my opinion.

Is that really how you value life? It has to have an impact or else it's worthless?

What about an imbecile or moron? An imbecile's life is also all about feeling good or bad.

mrstickball said: It'd be nice if the Vegans and vegetarians stopped from trying to force meat-eaters into their dietary preferences. Some days, I don't eat meat at all. Other days I do. Both things can be delicious, and tasty. However, I'm not going to prevent myself from eating a specific kind of food, just because you get yourself flustered over the issue. Having said that, I eventually want to raise all of my own meat and butcher it.

But how can you say that (your first sentence), you being a guy I know is anti-abortion and who has put a lot of though into that issue?

Pro-life people try to force pro-choice people into their preference of preserving human life in every form, even in the womb. For them it's not a question of choice and preference, it's a question of ethics. In the same way for the vegetarian it's not a question of choice, it's a question of ethics.

Even our God originally intended humans as well as animals to only live on plants. Only after human sin came into the world did he allow humans to consume animals. It's God's ideal state - no death should exist in his whole creation.

 

Our teeth aren't capable to rip through the flesh of other animals. We have one set of canines. And even those are incredibly dull. They don't reach downward like the teeth of other predators either. If you think that one set of dull teeth gives us the capability to rip through flesh, then that's your personal choice really.

We can't eat rotted meat like other predators. Other predators have digestive systems which allow them to kill the bacteria that forms on rotten meat. On the other hand, if a human eats rotten meat, he'll probably get sick or die. We have to apply flames to food to avoid illness because our bodies just can't handle it.

Most predators are incredibly agile, strong, and fast, in order to catch their predators. Humans, on the other hand, are one of the slowest, weakest animals to have ever existed. Our bodies aren't equipped to catch other animals.

Predators tend to have night vision. Humans don't.

The leading cause of death in America is heart disease, which is usually caused by excessive fat which is usually from meat.

all of this of course isn't conclusive evidence, but it does lend me to believe that its not natural for humans to eat meat, at least not a lot of meat. It was probably natural for us to eat an occasional insect or rodent, but plants were really meant to be the vast majority of our diet imo.

Jay520 said:

Bajablo said: Jay520 said: I personally don't think it's natural for humans to eat maet.   why o why isn't it? :) neanderthals did it when it was pretty much just instinct-based. Sure, they did it, don't think they thought that much about why, humans have digestive systems that can break down allmost anything (except grass etc.). If your body is capable to eat a certain thing (wo. throwing up.. like with grass i.e.) why wouldn't it be called natural? (since our ancestors waaaaaay back ate meat too) just got stuck on that one line and got interested to hear your thoughts why :) 'cause thats ilogical thinking' /slander /callingNames /rude and all that.. :P

1. We have one set of canines because we are omnivores. If we weren't meant to eat meat at all then we would have flat teeth all around. If we were meant to eat strictly meat then yes we would fail.

2. we can't eat rotten fruit or veggies either.

3. If we aren't equipped to catch other animals how come we do it so well?

4. The leading cause of death in america is heart disease... from eating meat... this sentence... first of all heart disease happens from other sources than meat. Secondly most heart disease is from a bad diet... which yes, consists of eating meat but it is so much more than that... it is the over consumption of meat and having meat be the focal point of the diet. If more people ate less meat and more fruits and veggies like reccommended then that number would reduce drastically... But meat can still be a part of a healthy diet. Even if Americans cut meat out entirely we would still have massive heart disease due to poor diet. Deep frying is not healthy for anyone. Anyway, just look all around America, everywhere you look you see burger joints that serve strictly meat. If these joints reduced the size of their burgers and gave a side of fresh fruit or veggies instead of deep fried potatos heart disease would drop.

Edit: no way my post formatted like that.

Max King of the Wild said: Our teeth aren't capable to rip through the flesh of other animals. We have one set of canines. And even those are incredibly dull. They don't reach downward like the teeth of other predators either. If you think that one set of dull teeth gives us the capability to rip through flesh, then that's your personal choice really. We can't eat rotted meat like other predators. Other predators have digestive systems which allow them to kill the bacteria that forms on rotten meat. On the other hand, if a human eats rotten meat, he'll probably get sick or die. We have to apply flames to food to avoid illness because our bodies just can't handle it. Most predators are incredibly agile, strong, and fast, in order to catch their predators. Humans, on the other hand, are one of the slowest, weakest animals to have ever existed. Our bodies aren't equipped to catch other animals. Predators tend to have night vision. Humans don't. The leading cause of death in America is heart disease, which is usually caused by excessive fat which is usually from meat. all of this of course isn't conclusive evidence, but it does lend me to believe that its not natural for humans to eat meat, at least not a lot of meat. It was probably natural for us to eat an occasional insect or rodent, but plants were really meant to be the vast majority of our diet imo. Jay520 said: Bajablo said: Jay520 said: I personally don't think it's natural for humans to eat maet.   why o why isn't it? :) neanderthals did it when it was pretty much just instinct-based. Sure, they did it, don't think they thought that much about why, humans have digestive systems that can break down allmost anything (except grass etc.). If your body is capable to eat a certain thing (wo. throwing up.. like with grass i.e.) why wouldn't it be called natural? (since our ancestors waaaaaay back ate meat too) just got stuck on that one line and got interested to hear your thoughts why :) 'cause thats ilogical thinking' /slander /callingNames /rude and all that.. :P 1. We have one set of canines because we are omnivores. If we weren't meant to eat meat at all then we would have flat teeth all around. If we were meant to eat strictly meat then yes we would fail. 2. we can't eat rotten fruit or veggies either. 3. If we aren't equipped to catch other animals how come we do it so well?

And so the serial killer explained in court:

"If I wasn't intended to kill other humans how come I do it so well?"

Slimebeast said: Max King of the Wild said: Our teeth aren't capable to rip through the flesh of other animals. We have one set of canines. And even those are incredibly dull. They don't reach downward like the teeth of other predators either. If you think that one set of dull teeth gives us the capability to rip through flesh, then that's your personal choice really. We can't eat rotted meat like other predators. Other predators have digestive systems which allow them to kill the bacteria that forms on rotten meat. On the other hand, if a human eats rotten meat, he'll probably get sick or die. We have to apply flames to food to avoid illness because our bodies just can't handle it. Most predators are incredibly agile, strong, and fast, in order to catch their predators. Humans, on the other hand, are one of the slowest, weakest animals to have ever existed. Our bodies aren't equipped to catch other animals. Predators tend to have night vision. Humans don't. The leading cause of death in America is heart disease, which is usually caused by excessive fat which is usually from meat. all of this of course isn't conclusive evidence, but it does lend me to believe that its not natural for humans to eat meat, at least not a lot of meat. It was probably natural for us to eat an occasional insect or rodent, but plants were really meant to be the vast majority of our diet imo. Jay520 said: Bajablo said: Jay520 said: I personally don't think it's natural for humans to eat maet.   why o why isn't it? :) neanderthals did it when it was pretty much just instinct-based. Sure, they did it, don't think they thought that much about why, humans have digestive systems that can break down allmost anything (except grass etc.). If your body is capable to eat a certain thing (wo. throwing up.. like with grass i.e.) why wouldn't it be called natural? (since our ancestors waaaaaay back ate meat too) just got stuck on that one line and got interested to hear your thoughts why :) 'cause thats ilogical thinking' /slander /callingNames /rude and all that.. :P 1. We have one set of canines because we are omnivores. If we weren't meant to eat meat at all then we would have flat teeth all around. If we were meant to eat strictly meat then yes we would fail. 2. we can't eat rotten fruit or veggies either. 3. If we aren't equipped to catch other animals how come we do it so well? And so the serial killer explained in court: "If I wasn't intended to kill other humans how come I do it so well?"

 

There is a difference in wording here. You say if I wasnt intended. Jay said if we werent equipped. If we werent equiped with the ability we wouldn't succeed so easily at it.