By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Is The Left Lying To Itself?

In the recent weeks leading up to the election, it is suprising to me how much the left is lying to itself.  I'm going to break this down into two big points: polls and the economy.

Polls

Let's start with the least serious, as in it doesn't necessarily affect anyone's life greatly.  Now, there have been many lately on the right criticizing the polls as being "skewed," while people on the left believe the right are just unhappy with the results of the poll.  Many of the criticisms stem from the belief that pollsters are using a model that benefits Obama unfairly.  After looking into the details of some of the polls, the truth is, they are.

For this point, I'm going to use a recent poll from CNN.  It's from a few days before the debate, so there won't be any bump for Romney shown in it, yet.  In the poll, they found that Obama was ahead of Romney by 3%.  The break down of those polled was 37% Democrat, 34% Independent/Other, and 29% Republican.  So a 8% lead for Democrats over Republicans and a 3% lead for Democrats over Independents.  They only problem with those percentages is that the election turnout WILL NOT reflect these numbers.  Even if we go with a best case scenerio, or a repeat of 2008, the turnout would be more like 40% Independent/Other, 31% Democrat, and 29% Republican.  This poll has a 7 point increase for Democrats over 2008, yet only a 3 point lead for Obama.  Now, if we change the the poll to resemble 2008's turnout, and if Romney is ahead with Independents by 8% (as this poll shows), then Romney would be up ~7%.

The Economy

This one is pretty sad, as it affects people's lives greatly.  I'm pretty sure we've all heard the accusations that the numbers have been fudged to get an unemployment of 7.8%, something I'm not really here to advance.  Do I think the numbers were massaged a little to give a slightly positive view of the economy?  Sure.  But I realize it's not only Obama's administration who has done this and is more a problem with how we calculate the number given in the first place.  Still, if you dig a little deeper, things still aren't good.

The left seem to be ignoring a few important facts.  For one, a lot of the jobs created in September are only part-time.  The ones that are seasonal are obviously going to be gone at the end of December.  And the ones that are from people being forced from full-time to part-time, well, I can't even imagine how horrible it must feel to get that talk/memo from your boss.  Even with this increase of jobs, whether part-time or full, we are still on pace to create fewer jobs this year than last.  Another important fact is that one of the reasons the unemployment has actually started to fall is because people are no longer being counted just because they have given up the job search.  Of course, if you look at the U-6, which does include them, it is unchanged from the previous month (14.7%), and is actually 0.6% higher than it was when Obama took office (14.1%).  And this all ignores the labor participation, which if it was the same when Obama took office, unemployment would be 10.7%.  Even using the numbers given, and plotting them on a slightly altered Team Obama projection chart, it says a lot:

Going by this chart, even Team Obama projected we'd be in a better position if we had had no stimulus.  So here we are, nearly 4 years later and nearly 6 TRILLION more in debt (1 trillion more than Bush did in 8 years), and we aren't even in the same position as we were when Obama took office. 

 

I think the left is in for a surprise this election day.  I know, personally, right after the debate I registered to vote online.  This is the first time in my life I have felt that I NEED to vote.  And I've been eligible to vote for over a decade now.  I would wager there are many more like me on the right this time around then there is on the left.



Around the Network

cuz we've already heard all the right's lies.

OT: if Obama wins, I would like romney to take a more active role in the economy, maybe czar of something economic sounding.



theprof00 said:

cuz we've already heard all the right's lies.

OT: if Obama wins, I would like romney to take a more active role in the economy, maybe czar of something economic sounding.

Oh god, not anymore Czars.  I doubt he will do this, but I would hope Romney would get rid of Czars.  We don't need appointed officials from the President who, for some reason, get to make up their rules on the fly, without the authorization of Congress.



Romney, Obama, bush, Clinton all work for Goldman sacs.. Don't believe me? Look at their treasury secretaries!,,


More than half the presidents cabinets are always Goldman sacs employees.


Look at their donors!,,, www.opensecrets.com. ( Goldman sacs and Blue cross own both sides )


There is no left or right, just two wings of the same bird of prey. Look into it or you are lying to YOURSELF



snyps said:
Romney, Obama, bush, Clinton all work for Goldman sacs.. Don't believe me? Look at their treasury secretaries!,,


More than half the presidents cabinets are always Goldman sacs employees.


Look at their donors!,,, www.opensecrets.com. ( Goldman sacs and Blue cross own both sides )


There is no left or right, just two wings of the same bird of prey. Look into it or you are lying to YOURSELF

And that my friend is correct. Romney has been just as much a socialist as Obama. Just check his record as governor. But now he is supposed to be this great conservative.



Around the Network
snyps said:
Romney, Obama, bush, Clinton all work for Goldman sacs.. Don't believe me? Look at their treasury secretaries!,,


More than half the presidents cabinets are always Goldman sacs employees.


Look at their donors!,,, www.opensecrets.com. ( Goldman sacs and Blue cross own both sides )


There is no left or right, just two wings of the same bird of prey. Look into it or you are lying to YOURSELF

Which is why Obama is sucha greta overlooked choice.

Obama's greatest accomplishment was getting the world to respect us once again. NOBODY likes a dictatorial potus except ourselves. Oh jfk was such a hero!!! jism. Sure. He was. I agree. But we let it get to our heads and now we bully because everyone has to have their jfk moment.

We earn the world's respect by doing what they're incapable of, not by pretending to be something they're much better at.



Let me guess. You think Romney's magical plan of tax cuts that supposedly pays for itself (*hint* it won't) will bring us back to the natural unemployment rate. As for your polling data, if you think skewing the polls in favor of Romney by increasing the number of Republicans represented in the poll is the right way to go, you probably have no idea of how polling works. Even Rasmussen said this would be an idiotic idea. There have been many posts already about why this idea is wrong, such as party affiliation being an attitudinal measure. Feel free to google them, but I'll link you to one post here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-stanford/skewed-polls_b_1917986.html

Also, here's polling expert Nate Silver's explanation on why Republicans assuming the polls are biased are simply wrong. 

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/poll-averages-have-no-history-of-consistent-partisan-bias/#more-35258

 

 

As for your unemployment post, you have a legitimate argument to make about the economy not gaining jobs fast enough. However, conservatives even suggesting Obama might have tampered with the BLS statistics is simply crazy. You probably saw 
Ezra Klein explains it pretty well here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/05/september-jobs-report-debunking-the-jobs-report-conspiracy-theories/

If you're biased against Ezra Klein for any reason, here is another one from US News and World Report

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/10/05/jobs-report-conspiracy-theory/1616285/

 

Bottom line: This new jobs report wipes away a talking point of Romney's, 8% unemployment for however many months he usually says at campaign rallys. Whether Republicans like it or not, the economy is improving, albeit slowly.



theprof00 said:
snyps said:
Romney, Obama, bush, Clinton all work for Goldman sacs.. Don't believe me? Look at their treasury secretaries!,,


More than half the presidents cabinets are always Goldman sacs employees.


Look at their donors!,,, www.opensecrets.com. ( Goldman sacs and Blue cross own both sides )


There is no left or right, just two wings of the same bird of prey. Look into it or you are lying to YOURSELF

Which is why Obama is sucha greta overlooked choice.

Obama's greatest accomplishment was getting the world to respect us once again. NOBODY likes a dictatorial potus except ourselves. Oh jfk was such a hero!!! jism. Sure. He was. I agree. But we let it get to our heads and now we bully because everyone has to have their jfk moment.

We earn the world's respect by doing what they're incapable of, not by pretending to be something they're much better at.

Yeah, he sure whipped the Middle East into shape with his 2009 "apology" tour, and now they love us and no longer harbor any ill will toward us or any Western nations.

Except for the people in Europe who continue to fawn over Obama, most of the world thinks he's an amature who's in way over his head.  Putin is laughing it up as he trys to resurrect the USSR.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

theprof00 said:
snyps said:
Romney, Obama, bush, Clinton all work for Goldman sacs.. Don't believe me? Look at their treasury secretaries!,,


More than half the presidents cabinets are always Goldman sacs employees.


Look at their donors!,,, www.opensecrets.com. ( Goldman sacs and Blue cross own both sides )


There is no left or right, just two wings of the same bird of prey. Look into it or you are lying to YOURSELF

Which is why Obama is sucha greta overlooked choice.

Obama's greatest accomplishment was getting the world to respect us once again. NOBODY likes a dictatorial potus except ourselves. Oh jfk was such a hero!!! jism. Sure. He was. I agree. But we let it get to our heads and now we bully because everyone has to have their jfk moment.

We earn the world's respect by doing what they're incapable of, not by pretending to be something they're much better at.



If you define "the world" as continental western European nations. Sure. France and Germany like us alot more, especially after doing all their heavy lifting in libya. Everywhere else though...? Not really... he appeased the middle east for about... a half a year, and now they're as pissed at us as ever, with good reason considering we're sending drones into nations without permission and killing a lot of innocents in the collateral damage. Egypt freaking hates us because the secularists think we basically rigged their elections for the Muslim Brotherhood. Which, while we didn't we did apparently offer then political training that we didn't offer various secularist candidates. Africa has in general been disappointed by Obama, he's rolled back a lot of Bush commitments. The only positive I can think of that wasn't part of already promised bush support, was the expansion of the Kony Search. Asia, don't think there has been much change there. American-Chinese relations seem slightly worse. Russia? Better relations then if Bush was there, but I don't think the relations have actually improved, due to russia's regression politically.

You have the professionally incompetent party and the crazy party. I don't see any real reason to celebrate going from one to the other.



Tease.