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Forums - General - Are you Pro-life or Pro-choice?

jlauro said:
Bodhesatva said:

...


Don't know about proving at two days, but there is ultrasounds of abortions at 11 weeks that prove such a young infant is capable of feeling pain.

http://www.silentscream.org/

Does this switch you from being a 6 month pro-choice to a 3 month pro-choice?

It is rediculous, but right now it is legal in America for abortions in the 9th month.


Animals are capableof feeling pain also, and must do so when killed. You can only speak from that position if you have never directly or indirectly contributed to the death of an animal.

The real question is; does it deserve full human rights? It doesn't, because it is fundamentally(not temporarily) incapable of what many humans can do. We need to consider its rights against the other people that are affected: in each case a moral decision can be made, but an outright ban after a certain time/development milestone is stupid and insensitive to the wider situation. 

 



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For all the pro-choice people, should parents just be allowed to kill their baby until it turns one year old if they change their mind or decide they made a mistake and want to get a divorce or just because...?



@fkusumot

It's not a poor argument. If I am aware to the point that I have sensory perception, then I am aware of my own existence (even if I have yet to develop the intelligence or vocabulary to express the idea). If I can feel pain, for example, then I must be aware in order to feel it, and self-aware to realise that it is me who is feeling the pain.



Declan said:
@fkusumot

It's not a poor argument. If I am aware to the point that I have sensory perception, then I am aware of my own existence (even if I have yet to develop the intelligence or vocabulary to express the idea). If I can feel pain, for example, then I must be aware in order to feel it, and self-aware to realise that it is me who is feeling the pain.

 You're really failing. It's like you don't understand Descarte at all, or is that your own argument?



Pro-Life.



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Declan said:
@fkusumot

It's not a poor argument. If I am aware to the point that I have sensory perception, then I am aware of my own existence (even if I have yet to develop the intelligence or vocabulary to express the idea). If I can feel pain, for example, then I must be aware in order to feel it, and self-aware to realise that it is me who is feeling the pain.

No, you've done backwards logic there.

You are saying: we see foetuses feeling pain -> pain implies self-awareness -> foetuses are self-aware

All you can actually conclude from that is that the foetuses aren't feeling pain but rather we are seeing a simple chemical response, rather than that foetuses have self-awareness.



Ubuntu. Linux for human beings.

If you are interested in trying Ubuntu or Linux in general, PM me and I will answer your questions and help you install it if you wish.

jlauro said:
For all the pro-choice people, should parents just be allowed to kill their baby until it turns one year old if they change their mind or decide they made a mistake and want to get a divorce or just because...?

There is a difference between an unborn child and one that has been born.



Wojtas said:
Pro choice, all the way. Pro-life enforcing unto others is really a bad thing. If my wife was facing death while in pregnancy and the only way to save her was to have an abortion, I would be the first person to perform it. As far as abortions for the sake that one can have an abortion...it's not my business. Besides, this world is really starting to get over populated. I mean, there are so many of us that most of us can't find a Wii....

I'm pro-life, to an extent. You and ArtofAngels had a right to abortion because the mom was in danger of losing her life. However, I don't think that people should do abortion because they're too lazy to take care of it or put it up for adoption. Oh, and more people means more help to ramp up the wii supply. ;)

koffieboon said:
jlauro said:
For all the pro-choice people, should parents just be allowed to kill their baby until it turns one year old if they change their mind or decide they made a mistake and want to get a divorce or just because...?

There is a difference between an unborn child and one that has been born.


What, besides for a few hours of labor and delivery?



Auron said:
llewdebkram said:
Pro life but there are circumstances when abortion should be allowed.

Agreed, my circumstances are rape, mother's health in danger and child's health in danger.

The above is the same as my view on the matter.