That was what 4 platform releases ago lol. You do live in the past. The last 3 releases from Sony have all been beaten by the last 3 releases from Ninty. When Sony loses it is pretty big as well, once you take alot of their 3rd party support like the PS2 did. Why not take a look at 3DS vs. Vita. When Sony releases a platform that actually sells well again then you can say they are still relevant but for now as long as they are getting outsold by their competitors you have no argument. I see a blue lines on the front page that are still the tallest, would you like to tell me whom do those blue lines belong to?

What am I not saying. I am NOT saying that Nintendo should drop what they are doing so well, they strides they've done in re-branding themselves with the Wii after the Gamecube, it was a real Hail Mary. I am saying that for Nintendo to have a console that is of PS2 dominance, they need to tap into the PSbox market and to do that they should take cues from Sony and cater to certain markets Sony has, with which Sony was able to compete with Xbox by offering quality 1st party exclusives for the segment that generally would prefer to play on xbox or Nintendo. And there you have it.

The 1st party games Sony made this gen and the last have kept customers happy and loyal. Nintendo should take note on what their competitors do right, and leave out the rest.

Simple stuff!

They came in 3rd is all that matters, a difference of 30M is enough to be considered the winner. I can work with numbers fine, the gap so far between the Vita and 3DS will be about as wide as that 30M at the end of this year. It took the 3DS less than 2 years.

Im curious, which do you think will sell more between WiiU and PS4?

I'm talking about the home console market. The handheld market has little to do with OP, as all the games listed in OP are home console games, and the argument is tied with home console logic. So for now, let's put handhelds aside as it is a very different topic. This is not a cop-out, it's the truth. There is not 1 handheld that has beaten a Nintendo handheld. The same can't be said about home consoles. LEAVE IT OUT.

You are a fool for disregarding the past, as Nintendo won its place as leader in 1 gen, when it was the LOSER two gens straight on the home console front, and SURVIVED by its lifeline (the handheld space and pokemon). So, please, Nintendo is far from having sealed its position. To disregard the past is stupid and has no reason of being unless you just want to say Nintendo is the best. Also, the sales of gen 7 are largely influenced by the sales of the gen before it, as this is a history, and not some blurb with no relation to its past. Get with the program, otherwise this debate is over.

I'm not looking for a "winner" that beats its competition by a small margin, and may yet get outsold in the long run (the PS360 have not shown signs of slowing down, the Wii is dead in the water). Especially not when the sum of the competition demolished Wii's total sales.

Compare Wii

360

and PS3

So there is winner and there is winner. If you're content with a marginal winner, then good for you. I want to see Nintendo at its full potential, and I know alot of people IRL and online who want that too. It would hurt nobody for Nintendo to try something like SotC. It's minimalistic, evoking and caters to that segment that Nintendo desperately needs. It's nice to have 3rd parties and all do it, it worked for the 1st playstation, but what kept the PS3 alive was that Sony themselves did it. So, there you have it.

I'm not asking for Nintendo to become Sony, I'm asking them to be Nintendo and take some inspiration from Sony and integrate what works for Sony AND what worked for Nintendo in the past on the NES and on the SNES, and make the ultimate Nintendo platform nobody can complain about.

Hey man, I would tweak one thing you wrote above.

Nintendo won the numbers game this generation because it appealed to the largest amount of people.

Sony won the previous two generations because it appealed to the largest amount of people.

I don't think it's fair to say the Wii won because of casual players, and the PS2 won because of "all audiences." The casual market (and again I really don't like that terminology) is the biggest market. They are the people who buy the majority of video game consoles. So if PS2 won it's because a lot of people who are casually interested in video games bought it. It's the same reason the Wii won.

People like you and me are the minority in this equation. For every devoted video game fan on this site, there are 20 people who are only marginally interested in video games. They maybe buy a single system per generation and play only a handful of games. Those are the people who made the PS2 a huge success, and they are the same people who made the Wii a success.

Fail again. The PS2's dominance never came from Sony, it came form overwhelming 3rd party support, something no one can ever pull off again. That's why the PS2 was pure luck lol. Sony hasn't been catering to their markets, most of the sequels to their games have flopped lol, because Sony is horrible at making games. The originals didn't sell that well to begin with, so when the sequels sell worse they look horrible. What proof of loyalty do you have if the sequels are underperforming and Sony keeps losing half of their userbase with every gen?

Ps3 lost half of it's userbase that isn't consider great.

Nintendo dropped  at rate a close of that so it looks like ps3 could get 40-50 million if we go by history of drops.

You can't spin a drop of more than 50percent as something as great victory.

People are not as intrested in ps3 with Xbox360 now releasing better 3rd party games.

If anything I would have said be more like xbox because they know what there doing not sony.

20 million xbox now 67 ?

Both Nintendo and Xbox have something to say this gen. They first party make sales make ps3 look like a joke.

You can't bring up the ps2 and ps1 days because that was past when they were the only third party console around really. Plus that was last gen and things change obviously.

Xbox360 > Ps3

Should be telling us to use xbox360 ideas not a 3rd place console that undersold.

The only reason PS2 appealed to all audiences is because the system had a great variation of third party games and those games did most of the job.
I doubt that first party PS2 games played a big part, according to VGC, the best selling first party game for the system is a "casual" that sits a bit higher than 4 million and possibly undertracked by not much.

EDIT: Did not notice Gran Turismo.

I don't care what you are looking for, and by a small margin. The margin between the 360 and PS3 is small and its taking the PS3 more than 6 years to overcome it lol. When it gets outsold then you will have an argument so try again. They have definitely showed signs of slowing down lol, they are in decline as we speak so fail again. The fact that you actually considered adding them up, is sad to say the least. SOTC will sell horrible like all of Sony's ips so no, I don't want Ninty to waste time catering to a base that put Sony in last. It worked for the 1st playstation, which didn't get beat by a platform w/o any 3rd party support. So that's what Sony should have done, tell me you don't really believe Sony would rather have a failure like the PS3 instead of a console like the PS1 lol. No matter what there will always be complaints, how old are you? No offense you seem to be young, you think if Ninty took one of there developers and made something like SOTC, nobody would complain? Whatever game that developer usually makes would not be made so those fans would complain. Ofcourse SOTC needs a talented developer, so lets say the Zelda team. Zelda which has a bigger fanbase than SOTC(You do know that game would be lucky to get pass 3 million right?) Zelda fans would go crazy. So no, let Sony be Sony and Ninty be Ninty. When they try to be Sony, hardcore gamers show no support, ask the Gamecube, when they try to be Ninty, they win.

Edit: Those graphs are a joke lol, the Wii crossed 1 million in a single week 9 times in its lifetime, while the PS3 could only do it once. Thats where that 30M gap came from and when the PS3 actually catches up, then you will have an argument. Ofcourse it wouldn't matter since by that time the WiiU would be smashing the PS4 and the gap between 3DS and Vita could be as large as 80M.