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Forums - Nintendo - IBM confirms that Wii U does not use Power 7 CPU

dark_gh0st_b0y said:
http://gamingbolt.com/wii-u-cpu-less-powerful-than-ps3360-says-tecmo

http://wiiudaily.com/2012/07/tekken-developer-wii-u-cpu-clock-kinda-low/

Given that we are talking about Japanese developers being translated to english, we must be cautious about what they mean.

It's not the same being slow(er) than being weak(er). And as Viper1 has said, if WiiU's CPU can do more per clock than its rivals they can make it slower to keep power consumption low while still being better.



Please excuse my bad English.

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Power7 goes from 2.0-3.2 clock speed.

It's possible to just be the lowest clock possible.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

ninetailschris said:
Power7 goes from 2.0-3.2 clock speed.

It's possible to just be the lowest clock possible.

Not quite.

2.4 to 4.25 Ghz.

But your point is still valid.  Could simply be the lower end of the clock range.  And it would have to be given how big and how hot Power7 chips run.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
ninetailschris said:
Power7 goes from 2.0-3.2 clock speed.

It's possible to just be the lowest clock possible.

Not quite.

2.4 to 4.25 Ghz.

But your point is still valid.  Could simply be the lower end of the clock range.  And it would have to be given how big and how hot Power7 chips run.

It wouldn't have to be at the lowest possible clock speed ... The relationship between clock speed and energy consumption/heat is an exponential one.

Back 'at the turn of the century' people were building their own home theater PCs and hooking them up to their TVs. Since you needed a relatively powerful system to do this, and these generally ran pretty hot and required fans that were loud people were underclocking and undervolting their systems to reduce power consumption.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article37-page1.html

Various Undervolted & Underclocked Settings Achieved

Clock Setting

Vcore, measured

Math ALU
Mem. Int. Bandwidth
CPU Idle Temp
CPU Power*
600 (6x100)
1.17 V
1649 MIPS
709 MB/s
32C
13.8 W
700 (7x100)
1.26 V
1924 MIPS
710 MB/s
34C
18.7 W
785 (6.5x130)
1.42 V
2148 MIPS
921 MB/s
38C
25.8 W
800 (6x133)
1.48 V
2211 MIPS
944 MB/s
39C
29.4 W
933 (7x133)
1.48 V
2568 MIPS
944 MB/s
41C
34.3 W
1000 (7.5x133)
1.53 V
2750 MIPS
944 MB/s
44C
38.8 W
1000 (10x100)
1.79 V
2750 MIPS
715 MB/s
48C
49 W

By reducing the clock speed by 40% people were able to achieve a (over) 70% reduction in energy consumption.

This act of underclocking a processor is (essentially) what is done to create laptop CPUs, and in laptops they generally run the CPU at (roughly) half the clockspeed of their desktop counterparts. The advantage Nintendo has is they can reduce the number of cores and underclock it to get energy consumption down and. while an 8 core Power7 chips running at 4.25GHz would run far too hot for any console, a 4 core Power7 chip running below 3GHz would probably be appropriate for many consoles.



Sure but we're talking a Power7 chip, not a consumer grade Intel or AMD. Dropping a 49 watt CPU down to 13.8 watts is one thing. Dropping a 200+ watt CPU down to 20-25 watts is another.

Besides, my post was merely pointing out the official clocks from IBM. Certainly a custom chip could be reduced to whatever the client wants.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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HappySqurriel said:
Viper1 said:
ninetailschris said:
Power7 goes from 2.0-3.2 clock speed.

It's possible to just be the lowest clock possible.

Not quite.

2.4 to 4.25 Ghz.

But your point is still valid.  Could simply be the lower end of the clock range.  And it would have to be given how big and how hot Power7 chips run.

It wouldn't have to be at the lowest possible clock speed ... The relationship between clock speed and energy consumption/heat is an exponential one.

Back 'at the turn of the century' people were building their own home theater PCs and hooking them up to their TVs. Since you needed a relatively powerful system to do this, and these generally ran pretty hot and required fans that were loud people were underclocking and undervolting their systems to reduce power consumption.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article37-page1.html

Various Undervolted & Underclocked Settings Achieved

Clock Setting

Vcore, measured

Math ALU
Mem. Int. Bandwidth
CPU Idle Temp
CPU Power*
600 (6x100)
1.17 V
1649 MIPS
709 MB/s
32C
13.8 W
700 (7x100)
1.26 V
1924 MIPS
710 MB/s
34C
18.7 W
785 (6.5x130)
1.42 V
2148 MIPS
921 MB/s
38C
25.8 W
800 (6x133)
1.48 V
2211 MIPS
944 MB/s
39C
29.4 W
933 (7x133)
1.48 V
2568 MIPS
944 MB/s
41C
34.3 W
1000 (7.5x133)
1.53 V
2750 MIPS
944 MB/s
44C
38.8 W
1000 (10x100)
1.79 V
2750 MIPS
715 MB/s
48C
49 W

By reducing the clock speed by 40% people were able to achieve a (over) 70% reduction in energy consumption.

This act of underclocking a processor is (essentially) what is done to create laptop CPUs, and in laptops they generally run the CPU at (roughly) half the clockspeed of their desktop counterparts. The advantage Nintendo has is they can reduce the number of cores and underclock it to get energy consumption down and. while an 8 core Power7 chips running at 4.25GHz would run far too hot for any console, a 4 core Power7 chip running below 3GHz would probably be appropriate for many consoles.

Not really. The relationship is quadratic with the voltage, it's linear with the speed. Your power consumption grows exponentially because you need to apply much higher vcores to reach a very high frequency, but the most important factor to the power consumption is the vcore. If you keep constant the vcore, a 15% lower frequency grants you ~15% lower power consumption.



Kynes said:

Not really. The relationship is quadratic with the voltage, it's linear with the speed. Your power consumption grows exponentially because you need to apply much higher vcores to reach a very high frequency, but the most important factor to the power consumption is the vcore. If you keep constant the vcore, a 15% lower frequency grants you ~15% lower power consumption.


I'm not (generally) a hardware expert, but I didn't think there was any point to having a higher vcore besides increasing clock speed. I've always assumed that you change these in tandem.

While I accept that what I said was not strictly correct, I think my point still stands. It is not unreasonable to think that a Power7 processor with 4 (or fewer) cores running at 3GHz (or lower) could be used in a gaming console.



TheShape31 said:
Snesboy said:
TheShape31 said:
Sal.Paradise said:
Oh lawd. About a million posts on vgchartz invalidated.

Yep, a lot of people put a lot of energy into defending the Wii U as being much more powerful than it is.  I was hoping that those people would be correct, but I sort of had a feeling that things would turn out this way.

I wonder now how many think that Wii U isn't overpriced by $50.  Or how many still believe that Wii U can easily do 1080p 60fps on just about any AAA 3D title.  I think it's time for many on this site to start thinking a bit more realistically about the capabilities of this new console.

Just as the Wii was barely capable of anything more than Xbox and Gamecube, such is the Wii U to PS3 and X360.

You play terrible PlayStation games. Please leave the Nintendo board.

Well, don't you sound grown up.  I'm trying to get to the facts, regardless of the outcome.  So just because I'm defending the information that makes the Wii U seem less powerful, it doesn't mean that I'm anti-Nintendo or anything like that.  Why do you think Wii U is so easily backward compatible?  Enhanced Broadway architecture is the most obvious answer, which is codenamed Espresso... Project Cafe ring any bells?  When you put all the information together, it makes the most sense.

You seem to care about specs. You might want to get one of these.



The problem is, it would make sense for it to be a Power7 chip. Power 7 chips are 45nm and the size of the chip Nintendo plans on using is 45nm. Watson said that it would be Power7 based, and just now all of a sudden IBM is backtracking? Something seems fishy. Broadway is at 90nm right now, to scale it back to 45nm and modernize it wouldn't make much sense at all. I still say it's Power 7 based.



By AMD: "...we can confirm that the Wii U will use AMD graphics but we have not provided any specifics on what silicon they will be using in the upcoming console."

It seems they don't want us to know more than they tell us officially. But their tongues slipped anyway already, whatever they say now, won't invalidate what they already said (as far as IBM is concerned).And in fact it doesn't. They just apply nore "general" terms about what they provided.




Watching the events of the cosmos unfold in tears and solitude