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Forums - Nintendo - Zelda Undertracked

happydolphin said:
the_dengle said:

Cool story, too bad like 99% of professional critics disagree with you. It's a drag that you were still struggling. I have a friend that couldn't really get it right, either. I know it definitely feels like it's the game at fault, but either you just haven't "gotten" it yet or you simply don't want to. It took me a few minutes to adjust and then worked great for me the whole way through. My copy of the game is not different from yours.

Games with traditional controls can and do have unresponsive controls. It's a sign of a poorly developed game. Good thing Skyward Sword's controls work beautifully.

It's especially too bad when I posted an article right in this thread, straight from the horse's mouth basically proving what I was saying -> http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4759034. Goes to show your commitment to the topic.

Oh I've seen the quote before. He didn't prove your point at all: you said that the controls don't work and are uninteresting, and that the tech isn't ready and isn't compelling. All he admitted was that some people don't like motion controls. It's a shame, because some people don't like 3D Zeldas, either, but they're not about to go exclusively 2D just because a few people whined loudly enough.

My favorite part is, "There were a lot of people who weren't able to do that." He very clearly knows that the problem is not with the game, but the player. I also like, "how we can evolve it further," which is the opposite of, "how we can take it back to where it was before."



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the_dengle said:

Oh I've seen the quote before. He didn't prove your point at all: you said that the controls don't work and are uninteresting, and that the tech isn't ready and isn't compelling. All he admitted was that some people don't like motion controls. It's a shame, because some people don't like 3D Zeldas, either, but they're not about to go exclusively 2D just because a few people whined loudly enough.

My favorite part is, "There were a lot of people who weren't able to do that." He very clearly knows that the problem is not with the game, but the player. I also like, "how we can evolve it further," which is the opposite of, "how we can take it back to where it was before."

So do you think he should change the players or have the players change to suit his and your needs, or even just flat out ignore them? Cause that sure sounds like what you're saying.



Roma said:
FrancisNobleman said:
Next Zelda gotta be a game that you can play either with the gamepad for classic-touch-enhanced control, and with wiimote, for Skyward Sword control.

You could engage in assymetric co-op to beat the game, or play all by yourself, of course the game is different depending the method you choose to play.

BAM! Both audiences satisfied. And you get kinda 2 games in one.

again with this? its like making two games in one as it will need two sets of AI to react to either buttons or swings of the player

I disagree. You could use the touch screen on the controller to show HOW you wanna strike your enemy - kinda like in INfinity Blade (or whatever that iOS game is called by Epic). In both examples you'd swing; either with your arm or with your finger ;)



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
Roma said:
FrancisNobleman said:
Next Zelda gotta be a game that you can play either with the gamepad for classic-touch-enhanced control, and with wiimote, for Skyward Sword control.

You could engage in assymetric co-op to beat the game, or play all by yourself, of course the game is different depending the method you choose to play.

BAM! Both audiences satisfied. And you get kinda 2 games in one.

again with this? its like making two games in one as it will need two sets of AI to react to either buttons or swings of the player

I disagree. You could use the touch screen on the controller to show HOW you wanna strike your enemy - kinda like in INfinity Blade (or whatever that iOS game is called by Epic). In both examples you'd swing; either with your arm or with your finger ;)


Ooh, this isn't a bad idea at all.  In fact, it might even be a good one.



Check out my Youtube Let's Play channel here.

happydolphin said:

So do you think he should change the players or have the players change to suit his and your needs, or even just flat out ignore them? Cause that sure sounds like what you're saying.

So you think he should change his game to suit a small amount of players' needs? Cause that sounds like what you're saying.

I'm not saying your an "unworthy customer," I'm saying it's not Nintendo's fault you aren't good at their game, and they shouldn't change their game to make everyone good at it without trying. They compared motion controls in Skyward Sword to the analog stick in Mario 64, and I agree; maybe some people didn't like switching over to analog controls, maybe they weren't comfortable with it. But Nintendo said, too bad, that's what we're doing now and if you don't like it you don't have to play the game. They didn't offer an 'option' to play Mario 64 with the D-pad, and they haven't offered that option in any 3D Mario game since then (excepting the DS port, which only used the D-pad because the DS didn't have an analog stick).

I think it's crazy how bluntly you talk about Miyamoto doing something to "suit his needs." YES, of course he's going to suit his own needs. He's the game's creator. His "needs" are law. I could use your exact argument to claim that Dark Souls needs to be easier, because making it hard is only suiting the "needs" of the developer and some players, and "ignoring" people who aren't good at the game. Boo hoo, old Mega Man games were really hard because they required a stupid amount of precision, Capcom should have made an option for your jumps to be higher so the game is easier.

Cry me a river. One in every thousand copies of Skyward Sword has some kind of flagrant error that exclusively affects how it responds to the controls? And almost all of those "defective" copies found their way into the hands of players who have some kind of crusade against motion controls? I don't think so. Every copy of this game is identical. You and I are playing the exact same game. The problem, be it your console, your controller, something in your room interfering with your remote, or your approach, is on YOUR end. There's nothing wrong with the game. It plays exactly the way it's meant to be played, and it brings a lot of excellent new ideas to the series and to gaming in general. Some future Zelda games will use traditional controls, just as some Zelda games made after Ocarina were 2D. But not all games. And yes, if you don't like motion controls, my answer to you is the same as my answer to people who don't like 3D Zelda, or to people who don't like analog sticks: tough.

This sort of dialogue is a necessary "rough patch" in the long history of video games. Eventually, many players like you will accept motion controls as a part of gaming and a part of Zelda and will learn to enjoy them. Many players will continue to turn their nose up at motion controls, they will be missing out on great experiences, and that's their own decision. I don't feel sorry for people making that decision.



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the_dengle said:
happydolphin said:

So do you think he should change the players or have the players change to suit his and your needs, or even just flat out ignore them? Cause that sure sounds like what you're saying.

So you think he should change his game to suit a small amount of players' needs? Cause that sounds like what you're saying.

I'm not saying your an "unworthy customer," I'm saying it's not Nintendo's fault you aren't good at their game, and they shouldn't change their game to make everyone good at it without trying. They compared motion controls in Skyward Sword to the analog stick in Mario 64, and I agree; maybe some people didn't like switching over to analog controls, maybe they weren't comfortable with it. But Nintendo said, too bad, that's what we're doing now and if you don't like it you don't have to play the game. They didn't offer an 'option' to play Mario 64 with the D-pad, and they haven't offered that option in any 3D Mario game since then (excepting the DS port, which only used the D-pad because the DS didn't have an analog stick).

I think it's crazy how bluntly you talk about Miyamoto doing something to "suit his needs." YES, of course he's going to suit his own needs. He's the game's creator. His "needs" are law. I could use your exact argument to claim that Dark Souls needs to be easier, because making it hard is only suiting the "needs" of the developer and some players, and "ignoring" people who aren't good at the game. Boo hoo, old Mega Man games were really hard because they required a stupid amount of precision, Capcom should have made an option for your jumps to be higher so the game is easier.

Cry me a river. One in every thousand copies of Skyward Sword has some kind of flagrant error that exclusively affects how it responds to the controls? And almost all of those "defective" copies found their way into the hands of players who have some kind of crusade against motion controls? I don't think so. Every copy of this game is identical. You and I are playing the exact same game. The problem, be it your console, your controller, something in your room interfering with your remote, or your approach, is on YOUR end. There's nothing wrong with the game. It plays exactly the way it's meant to be played, and it brings a lot of excellent new ideas to the series and to gaming in general. Some future Zelda games will use traditional controls, just as some Zelda games made after Ocarina were 2D. But not all games. And yes, if you don't like motion controls, my answer to you is the same as my answer to people who don't like 3D Zelda, or to people who don't like analog sticks: tough.

This sort of dialogue is a necessary "rough patch" in the long history of video games. Eventually, many players like you will accept motion controls as a part of gaming and a part of Zelda and will learn to enjoy them. Many players will continue to turn their nose up at motion controls, they will be missing out on great experiences, and that's their own decision. I don't feel sorry for people making that decision.

It sounds like you're saying something you don't know about. (Bold) Read the quote from Archbrix.



Crono141 said:
DanneSandin said:
Roma said:
FrancisNobleman said:
Next Zelda gotta be a game that you can play either with the gamepad for classic-touch-enhanced control, and with wiimote, for Skyward Sword control.

You could engage in assymetric co-op to beat the game, or play all by yourself, of course the game is different depending the method you choose to play.

BAM! Both audiences satisfied. And you get kinda 2 games in one.

again with this? its like making two games in one as it will need two sets of AI to react to either buttons or swings of the player

I disagree. You could use the touch screen on the controller to show HOW you wanna strike your enemy - kinda like in INfinity Blade (or whatever that iOS game is called by Epic). In both examples you'd swing; either with your arm or with your finger ;)


Ooh, this isn't a bad idea at all.  In fact, it might even be a good one.

It is, isn't it? And it should work fairly well too! The only thing is, you won't be able to use the map or inventory while fighting...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

happydolphin said:

It sounds like you're saying something you don't know about. (Bold) Read the quote from Archbrix.

He commented on the people who don't like motion controls. They have also commented on Operation Moonfall when the petition had about 20k signatures. If that is the "threshold" for commenting on something, then I'd say when 3.5 million people have played your game, 0.002 million is a small minority.


DanneSandin said:
Roma said:
FrancisNobleman said:
Next Zelda gotta be a game that you can play either with the gamepad for classic-touch-enhanced control, and with wiimote, for Skyward Sword control.

You could engage in assymetric co-op to beat the game, or play all by yourself, of course the game is different depending the method you choose to play.

BAM! Both audiences satisfied. And you get kinda 2 games in one.

again with this? its like making two games in one as it will need two sets of AI to react to either buttons or swings of the player

I disagree. You could use the touch screen on the controller to show HOW you wanna strike your enemy - kinda like in INfinity Blade (or whatever that iOS game is called by Epic). In both examples you'd swing; either with your arm or with your finger ;)

No no no! its a bad idea cuz umm I didn't think of it! -.-


it could work but how will the sword swing be? I mean will link swing to where you touch or you have to move the sword from one side to the other? I don't remember the name of that game :P

do players really want to work their finger around uhm the screen? most people just want to push buttons so they lose the least amount of fat as possible *trollface*



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

the_dengle said:
happydolphin said:

It sounds like you're saying something you don't know about. (Bold) Read the quote from Archbrix.

He commented on the people who don't like motion controls. They have also commented on Operation Moonfall when the petition had about 20k signatures. If that is the "threshold" for commenting on something, then I'd say when 3.5 million people have played your game, 0.002 million is a small minority.

You can bend the truth whichever way you like to fit your viewpoint, one such way is to fit the operation rainfall numbers with the potential Zelda buyers.

A more intelligent way of reading the data is to say that 10mil people bought TP, whereas 3.5Mil bought SS, so there are probably 6.5 mil peple out there who weren't interested in the game most likely for the reason Miyamoto stated. Otherwise, why think back on the idea if it was a success. Well, it was not a success basically for the reason I just stated, thereby showing that my case holds together.

Your approach is far-fetched at best.