| spurgeonryan said:
In case anyone was wondering what she looks like from behind.
Everyone needs to shut their trap about this wonderful lady! Because of her money all the pig farmers of Western Austria have a roof over their heads from selling her their bacon and bacon fat. |
Mr Khan said:
That line from Yoda always bothered me. Trying is more important than success or failure. Success without trying is less meritorious than trying and failing, because the effort ethic is worth more to society in the long run. |
You don't just succeed without effort. Effort is involved, usually LOTS of effort, scarifice and many failed attempts. However, it's an attitude. "Trying" pre-supposes failure. It sub-consciously accepts failure as a valid option. Do not 'try' to do anything. Ms. Rindhart didn't multiple her inheritance by 10X's by trying. You have to be in a place mentally where the status quo is quite simply completely unacceptable and intolerable - with faith that better is achievable. Then it's no longer a matter of trying. You are doing. You're making a plan, executing and then based on results tweeting or changing the plan and continuing until the desired results are achieved. Edison didn't 'try' to perfect the lightbulb, he did it. Despite having hundreds of negative results on the way. If Edison had 'tried' he would have failed like all before him.
crissindahouse said:
yeah but that wouldn't work if everyone would do that. not everyone can work as whatever you do, there are only limited ressources for something you can make good money with. it's not as if everyone on this planet could open an own company to make some money or that everyone could work for a company at a postion to make enough money. there doesn't come money from nowhere for everyone and it's not as if there wouldn't be still the jobs people don't get enough money for which the same amount of people have to do like they do nowadays. we don't have robots who can do all the low paid jobs on this planet, with you who doesn't have to do the low paid jobs anymore, there is someone else who has to do it now instead of you. |
That's actually not true. Money does "come from nowhere" as value is increased by new products getting introduced into the economy.
Additionally, as low level workforce dereaeses demand increases and so does wages. For example in North Dakota it's something like $12 an hour to work at McDonalds.
Everyone coulnd't be rich relativly, but compaired to how we are now... everyone would be "rich." Just how, the poor now, are better off then rhe Rich of say the 1970's.
So who now thinks they have Entitlements? Yea the rich refer to us as, " THOSE PEOPLE" or in An Romney's case " YOU PEOPLE". The Rich that think they are owed something by the poor. They think they own us, While at the same time think we should get nothing and like it. Wait a minute there is a group of these same people, Can't remember there name. What is it? Repub.... Republicons. Thats it, Republicons.
America is the perfect example of give your money to the rich and nothing happens. We have been doing it for thirty years, yet you would think we would be over flowing with jobs. Actually it is the opposite.
Immortal said:
As for your anecdote, while there are obviously people who manage to get far against the odds, they are normally considered the exception. For every story about self-made millionaires (or even the less extravagant climbed-up-the-economic-ladder stories), you'd probably be faced with a dozen anecdotes from the other side telling you about people who are working/have worked insanely hard, are trying/have tried to follow the classic recipes to economic success and are still getting nowhere. By the way, I'm honestly not completely sure if I disagree with you. Since I'm slightly left-leaning on this subject, I'm just keen to get the opposition's perspective here. |
The problem is.... his stats are wrong... as can be shown by the article he himself presented that suggests the worst case scenario. He said most people stay in their same economic condition yet....
"A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults."
42% isn't even close to "most"... and it's the largest bracket without change.
Additionally if you control "Job Poor" from "Welfare Poor" you find the majority of that 42% are in fact those on welfare.
As it is, income mobilitys main problem is the inability to get those on welfare back into productive society.
Bill Maher Says it the best. Vote out REPUBLICAN CONGRESS!!!.
Before some brown nosing the rich guy person on this page comes and comments. You know who you are!!!.
| Immortal said:
As for your anecdote, while there are obviously people who manage to get far against the odds, they are normally considered the exception. For every story about self-made millionaires (or even the less extravagant climbed-up-the-economic-ladder stories), you'd probably be faced with a dozen anecdotes from the other side telling you about people who are working/have worked insanely hard, are trying/have tried to follow the classic recipes to economic success and are still getting nowhere. By the way, I'm honestly not completely sure if I disagree with you. Since I'm slightly left-leaning on this subject, I'm just keen to get the opposition's perspective here. |
I don't doubt that lots of poor people work hard, and I generally would not say the path to success is simply working harder, but where their efforts are directed are often very wasteful. Working 60 hours a week as a janitor (to pick a low paying job) is certainly working hard but it is not going to result in improving your standard of living beyond what it provides in cash. In contrast, working 40 hours per week as a Janitor plus putting in 16 hours a week to take 2 courses at the community college will likely improve your earning potential in the long run.
Kasz216 said:
The problem is.... his stats are wrong... as can be shown by the article he himself presented that suggests the worst case scenario. He said most people stay in their same economic condition yet.... "A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults."
|
My browser explodes when I click the link, but that statistic alone is inconclusive. If 42% stay there and another 50% or so move up one fifth, then that kind of fluctuation still seems to imply that most people stay in a similar economic condition, albeit not the "same". It's already enough to construct something of an argument on if nearly half of them don't even move up a fifth. I'd agree that it's a bit of a stretch, though.
“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx
Immortal said:
My browser explodes when I click the link, but that statistic alone is inconclusive. If 42% stay there and another 50% or so move up one fifth, then that kind of fluctuation still seems to imply that most people stay in a similar economic condition, albeit not the "same". It's already enough to construct something of an argument on if nearly half of them don't even move up a fifth. I'd agree that it's a bit of a stretch, though. |
If you've ever been at the bottom or know people at the bottom... there is a BIG difference from the bottom Quintile and the next one. However, again... only using the data he provided, that best represents his point...
8% at the bottom... raised to the the highest position.
So it most definitly isn't 42/50/0/0/8% situation... actually they have their source cited so i'll have further data shortly.
Basically, research shows that to get out of the bottom percentile with something like a 75-90% ability within like 5-10 years you need to accomplish 3 things.
1) Graduate Highschool.
2) Don't have a child before you are 25.
3) Have a job lined up when you graduate. Even if it's just working at McDonalds.
The reason why we have such a problem at the lowest level is that we
A) Have a lot of highschool dropouts, like the county I'm in, where I think the graduation rate is... 46-56% or so?
B) Do an AWFUL job with teen pregnancy with it happening all the time.
C) Give everybody the idea they should go to college, even when they really shouldn't.
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