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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - ‘Free-to-play titles are natural fit for Xbox – Microsoft

dahuman on 31 August 2012
richardhutnik said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

When I first got onto VGChartz I only owned a 360 (Which of course I defended at the time because MS had the third party exclusives). No offense but the 360 owners were stomping the PS3 owners for "having no games" and doing the exact same crap the PS3 owners are dishing out today. 2008 through now Sony has been throwing out the exclusives and people have swayed. Some stayed on a side lableing, and abusing the rules (we all have). All console camps were boasting, including the Wii owners who finally after two generations could say their faith in Nintendos ability to dominate wasn't in vain. Of course the war was always between the PS3/360 owners who warred amongst ourselves. People had a reason to argue for Microsoft back in 2005-2008 but after that I really don't know what to tell you. Perhaps some people got scared off, but the fact remains the trolls exist in every group, arguers do too. We've all been in on it because we all have a personal preference even if we own all of the consoles. The response to the topic is founded on the truth that essentially nothing pertaining to online multiplayer is free to play on Xbox Live, so Microsofts statement about it being a natural fit is actually founded on a lie.

Here is the quote from the end of OP:

“The free-to-play model and games experiences will be available to all Xbox LIVE Gold subscribers,” the spokesperson concluded, “as many of the games planned will be multiplayer games by nature (an Xbox LIVE Gold subscription is required for multiplayer gaming). The games that use the free-to-play mechanic will leverage the Microsoft Points system.”

That is the running joke of this post. By their very nature Microsoft does not support free online gaming.

Every single thing contained in that quote fits the context of the quote.  It CLEARLY states the "free to play" model/experience/mechanism (aka, how free to play works) is going to go to XBox Live Gold members.  For those who are already paying for Gold, they are going to get games they didn't pay for, to use with their account.  

People to say this is a lie is seriously pushing it.  By the full context, it is accurate.  If one wants to then split hairs over how "free to play" is being defined, feel free to.  But you will see individuals who defend PS+ to no end, and say they are getting FREE games, say Microsoft is lying.  This is inconsistent.  Both use a subscription model and give you content to use with the subscription model for no additional charge.  WIth the F2P model, there is also likely micropayments that are coming.

And the reality is, on how cute this discussion has gotten, you pay for Internet and everything else.  Next up, is fully free to play going to consist of games being beamed directly toyour head?

Nothing is absolutely free, where the line is drawn is hardware vs service, you have to obviously pay for the hardware to get to the content no matter which platform you are on. Look at it this way, I have a PS3, I don't have PSN+, if there are F2P content on it, I automatically have full access to them, then I have a PC, same thing, I have a Wii and will have a Wii U, same thing. Now lets look at the 360 eco system, nope, after you pay for the hardware, you have to pay to play online, F2P content is not really free due to the service they provide. That's why I've always had a problem with XBL to start with, alot of people don't see or want to see the layers.

You say we pay for the internet, yes, we absolutely do, but at the same time, that's why I so badly want google fiber to take over the entire US since they have an option for you to pay 300 bucks to setup the box and fiber then you can use their 5/1 service for at least 7 years guaranteed without paying a dime for the service :P I would totally pay 70 bucks for their full gigabit service of course muwahahaha.



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richardhutnik on 31 August 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
TRios_Zen said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 

Um dude...Xbox Live is a subscription based program. If Microsoft blocks other people from using online because of a fee it defeats the purpose of free to play. Nothing is free on Xbox Live outside of the silver package which is bare bones at best. No doubt Xbox Live will be a great MMO platform for free online games elsewhere, but Xbox Live is a premium service. Free and Xbox Live dont mix in a press statement. On PC, PS3, Wii definitely...Xbox 360 no.  This isn't bias I pay for live when theres games I want to play online on it, but it really was a bad choice of words and shows just how out of touch they are with their own policy. 

I currently am an XBOX Live Gold member.

When these games are released, how much more will I have to spend to play the base game?


Thats the point you already paid to be privy to such releases. Silver members aren't privy to shit on the Xbox 360. On PSN, Wii or PC silver class members would be privy to the same shit as long as the company making the game allowed for it. It's not like being "free" on any other platform. On Xbox Live you pay for everything ontop of 3rd party subscriptions.

And this is an example of why discussions on here break down to console partisan stupidity, to be blunt.  It ends up being "On X... blah blah blah blah",  and then a shot at how much XBox Live sucks because they charge for it.    It is fairly pathetic.  Seriously, it is pathetic.

The business models are different.  Due to Gold, one gets demos for about everything over XBox Live, even at Silver.  PS3 owners who don't have a PS3 think that PS+ is awesome because you get so many demos and betas.  And the Wii?  Argh, you get FRIEND CODES, if you want to be able to play anyone, as if much online gaming goes on with the Wii.  

I get more content for free, on XBox Live Silver, due to gold than PS3 and Wii owners do.  That is the reality of it.  And there are a number of free games also that Silver level can get also.  



richardhutnik on 31 August 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Um dude...Xbox Live is a subscription based program. If Microsoft blocks other people from using online because of a fee it defeats the purpose of free to play. Nothing is free on Xbox Live outside of the silver package which is bare bones at best. No doubt Xbox Live will be a great MMO platform for free online games elsewhere, but Xbox Live is a premium service. Free and Xbox Live dont mix in a press statement. On PC, PS3, Wii definitely...Xbox 360 no.  This isn't bias I pay for live when theres games I want to play online on it, but it really was a bad choice of words and shows just how out of touch they are with their own policy. 

And so is Playstation Plus.  And the talk on here is how it offered free games to the subscribers of the service:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=143758&page=

 

Sony Preparing For A Massive Revamp To PlayStation Plus With Free Top Tier Games and Proper Vita Integration 

PlayStation Plus is an amazing offer PSN / SEN users can take advantage, for the mere price of $50 a year players get free content every month ranging from full retail games to mini’s and even free dynamic themes and avatars along with early access to closed beta’s and greater savings on sales. It seems that Sony is making plans of revamping the PlayStation Plus program and Ross McGrath who is the PlayStation Plus at SCEE has even said ” By the way, if you don’t have a PS+ subscription, now is the time to get one. For real. Just get 3 months if you aren’t sure. Trust me. ” ( You can view the TweetHere ) on his twitter account. Could this be a hint that the months following E3 will be heaven for us PlayStation Plus Subscribers?

And Sony also uses the term free games, when discussing Playstation Plus:

 

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/07/02/new-games-coming-to-playstation-plus-instant-game-collection/

 

New Games Coming to PlayStation Plus Instant Game Collection

+ Posted by Morgan Haro // Community Manager, PlayStation Digital Platforms

Last month we gave all PlayStation Plus members an Instant Game Collection that included 12 full PS3 and PSN games, and it’s been a resounding hit with gamers everywhere! This month, we’re continuing the free game goodness by bringing three new titles to your collection in PlayStation Plus.

Break out the fireworks for the July 3rd PlayStation Store update, where PlayStation Plus members will be able to download Gotham City Impostors, Pac-Man Championship Edition DX, and Renegade Ops for FREE

 

 

And you can see in article like this, Cablevision is said to offer FREE games to the cable subscribers:

 http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/movies/cablevision-rolls-out-free-games-for-io-tv-customers

Cablevision Wednesday launched of a new interactive gaming service that will be available free to all its iO digital TV customers. The new offering, from ActiveVideo's TAG Games, has an array of puzzle, arcade and children's games, and allows customers to play on their own or even against other iO TV customers in a house-to-house mode.  "We are always looking to differentiate and add value to our products, and the addition of free games for our iO TV customers serves both objectives," John Trierweiler, Cablevision's senior vice president of product  And yes, the company website calls it free:

 http://www.optimum.com/digital-cable-tv/games/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Free Cable TV Games

Optimum TV Isn't Just TV You Watch. It's TV you play!

Optimum TV customers enjoy free access to our interactive TV games service, TAG Games! Enjoy hours of entertainment with an exciting lineup of TV games for both children and adults!

Play TAG Games on Optimum TV Channel 610 - FREE.

 

 

It is fairly common, in the context of someone paying for a good or service, to get additional things for no costs, and those things are said to be free.  People disagreeing with this terminology, are disagreeing with convention.  You might as well also go and yell at Gamestop when they have "buy two and get one free" and tell them, "You are lying, you are NOT allowing people to get a game for free.  If you were allowing people to get a game for free, they wouldn't have to pay for anything.  You would let people walk off with whatever game they want.  STOP LYING GAMESTOP!"

In short "free" also can mean "no additional charge". If you feel this is wrong, then go and look it up.  And after you look it up, and still disagree, then go and argue with the world.  A good place would be to get a sign and start an "Occupy Malls" movement, to tell the world to stop supporting these lies.

Also, with PS+ to, once people downgrade, they no longer can even load their games they had access to prior.  Those PS3 titles they hve access to for free with their subscription no longer work.



dahuman on 31 August 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
dahuman said:

I think the problem is that as the PSN improved, and PC remaining the best option for online multi-player, XBL gold just doesn't seem that attractive no matter how much some people swear by it. The very notion that MS can say something that basically means "we have F2P games, you just have to pay to get to play them!" brings an endless amount of ??????????????????????????????????????????? over some people's heads. No F2P game can make good money without a MP component to it, the gold service itself defeats that statement and creates a paradox.

 

ps: I say again, if you want good F2P, PC!


QFT PC free to play owns all! Guild Wars 2 is killing it at my school. The game looks amazing.

GW2 is B2P, not F2P :P , but yeah it's fun.



S.T.A.G.E. on 31 August 2012
richardhutnik said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
TRios_Zen said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 

Um dude...Xbox Live is a subscription based program. If Microsoft blocks other people from using online because of a fee it defeats the purpose of free to play. Nothing is free on Xbox Live outside of the silver package which is bare bones at best. No doubt Xbox Live will be a great MMO platform for free online games elsewhere, but Xbox Live is a premium service. Free and Xbox Live dont mix in a press statement. On PC, PS3, Wii definitely...Xbox 360 no.  This isn't bias I pay for live when theres games I want to play online on it, but it really was a bad choice of words and shows just how out of touch they are with their own policy. 

I currently am an XBOX Live Gold member.

When these games are released, how much more will I have to spend to play the base game?


Thats the point you already paid to be privy to such releases. Silver members aren't privy to shit on the Xbox 360. On PSN, Wii or PC silver class members would be privy to the same shit as long as the company making the game allowed for it. It's not like being "free" on any other platform. On Xbox Live you pay for everything ontop of 3rd party subscriptions.

And this is an example of why discussions on here break down to console partisan stupidity, to be blunt.  It ends up being "On X... blah blah blah blah",  and then a shot at how much XBox Live sucks because they charge for it.    It is fairly pathetic.  Seriously, it is pathetic.

The business models are different.  Due to Gold, one gets demos for about everything over XBox Live, even at Silver.  PS3 owners who don't have a PS3 think that PS+ is awesome because you get so many demos and betas.  And the Wii?  Argh, you get FRIEND CODES, if you want to be able to play anyone, as if much online gaming goes on with the Wii.  

I get more content for free, on XBox Live Silver, due to gold than PS3 and Wii owners do.  That is the reality of it.  And there are a number of free games also that Silver level can get also.  


I never said Xbox Live sucks (I like Xbox Live just as much as PSN). Don't misunderstand me on that, but my point is the statement in OP is erroneous because you need to pay for Xbox Live to even gain access to the online game (any online game) I find Xbox Live Gold and free PSN (Today not two years ago) to be virtually equal because I did essentially the same things like game online and entertain myself on netflix, video chat with friends and more. The statement about you gaining more content on Xbox Live Silver than PSN owners who do is highly erroneous. Without gold you cant even voice chat. It's essentially the same experience as gold without paying for it. Also on PSN you aren't barricaded from your subscriptions that you already pay for outside of your console. This situation is not equal in the slightest. To isolate a free to play no longer makes it free to play. Perhaps if they allowed gold and silver members to play that game online only and still purchase the content (Which will be the games only real revenue builder) then it would truly be free to play, but until then on Xbox Live it can never be. Microsoft draws the fine line between privilages, especially when it comes to the word free, which PC and PSN users seem to get the best of. This isn't isn't a preference issue, but merely clearing up the truth of the matter.

It would be wise to understand. The closest anyone will ever get to free online by Microsoft is to not support it. The Windows Live Gold subscription being dropped and given for free is proof of this.

http://www.1up.com/news/games-windows-live-multiplayer-free

 

P.S.

Microsoft can only force people to pay for online on a closed OS. It kind of psyches people into the mentality that they are paying for quality when in reality the fact is you have two choices, either join or enjoy the bare minimum.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 01 September 2012
dahuman said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
dahuman said:

I think the problem is that as the PSN improved, and PC remaining the best option for online multi-player, XBL gold just doesn't seem that attractive no matter how much some people swear by it. The very notion that MS can say something that basically means "we have F2P games, you just have to pay to get to play them!" brings an endless amount of ??????????????????????????????????????????? over some people's heads. No F2P game can make good money without a MP component to it, the gold service itself defeats that statement and creates a paradox.

 

ps: I say again, if you want good F2P, PC!


QFT PC free to play owns all! Guild Wars 2 is killing it at my school. The game looks amazing.

GW2 is B2P, not F2P :P , but yeah it's fun.


F2P can either be purchased or downloadable for free, but the main objective revolves around free online play and the form of profit can arrive for charging for upgrades and cosmetics. Free to play is a designation for online play not retail purchase (IE: Opposite of WOW or Star Wars Old republic going F2P). 

http://gamingbolt.com/guild-wars-2-in-depth-review



Stinky on 01 September 2012

Nice to see further value for Gold membership.



S.T.A.G.E. on 01 September 2012
Stinky said:
Nice to see further value for Gold membership.


Free to play is available mostly on PC. If you see free online play as a value...you would love PC.



dahuman on 02 September 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
dahuman said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
dahuman said:

I think the problem is that as the PSN improved, and PC remaining the best option for online multi-player, XBL gold just doesn't seem that attractive no matter how much some people swear by it. The very notion that MS can say something that basically means "we have F2P games, you just have to pay to get to play them!" brings an endless amount of ??????????????????????????????????????????? over some people's heads. No F2P game can make good money without a MP component to it, the gold service itself defeats that statement and creates a paradox.

 

ps: I say again, if you want good F2P, PC!


QFT PC free to play owns all! Guild Wars 2 is killing it at my school. The game looks amazing.

GW2 is B2P, not F2P :P , but yeah it's fun.


F2P can either be purchased or downloadable for free, but the main objective revolves around free online play and the form of profit can arrive for charging for upgrades and cosmetics. Free to play is a designation for online play not retail purchase (IE: Opposite of WOW or Star Wars Old republic going F2P). 

http://gamingbolt.com/guild-wars-2-in-depth-review

uh, that sounds more like F2PO aka no monthly subscription, most online games fit into that category unless you are playing on a xbox :P Tribes Ascend, League of Legends, Smite, Planetside 2, Firefall, Blacklight Retribution, Maple Story, Vindictus, DOTA2 and many others are actual F2P games that are not or will not be P2W games, those are actual F2P games.



Stinky on 02 September 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Stinky said:
Nice to see further value for Gold membership.


Free to play is available mostly on PC. If you see free online play as a value...you would love PC.


I play on PC as well.