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Forums - Politics Discussion - Economist: civilization may not survive "death spiral"

Mr Khan said:
I would think if it came down to that, the advanced economies would simply declare something akin to biblical "Jubilee," where everyone forgives everyone else's sovereign debt and just sort of starts clean.

I don't know... I mean, if you think America is classist now?

I feel like a giant "Jubilee" would lead to a HUGE social stratification among all classes whole those who were debt free before hand end up highly looking down on those who weren't debt free.

You'd end up with a REAL split country at that point as people with "wiped" credit scores and their familys would likely be persecuted and looked down opon for needing "everyone else to bail them out."

It'd be like the Great Gatsby all over again,  New Rich vs Old Rich, except it'd be all of society.


New Debt free vs Old Debt free.  Those "New debt free" people would end up screwed as they and their children get shut out of situations that others don't.

 

Heck, you'd probably see a realignment of Republican and Democrat based along those lines, as people like union workers would feel burned for working so hard only for others to get their debt reliveved for free,  while social conservative people in huge debt would then line up behind the democrats.

 

On the upside, that'd probably improve social issue legislation.



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Doomsday economic predictions have been around for decades.

Mike from Morgantown



      


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Well, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet say that the extremely wealthy in the USA are under taxed. They are both extremely wealthy and donate buckets of money to charity.

I think they have a good point. Kennedy rolled taxes on the wealthy down to 75%. Today many of the top earners in the USA pay less than 13% and many no taxes at all. The lower and middle classes simply do not make enough money to ever have their taxes amount to much of anything.

It's a fairly easy fix, but the extremely wealthy are fighting it every step of the way.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

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Unethical banking system supported by corrupt governments ensuring the majority of the power is in the hands of the lucky few elites.
The world has existed for billions of years without money. Money is a human invention that has only existed for around 10,000 years.



Its the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.



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Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
I would think if it came down to that, the advanced economies would simply declare something akin to biblical "Jubilee," where everyone forgives everyone else's sovereign debt and just sort of starts clean.

I don't know... I mean, if you think America is classist now?

I feel like a giant "Jubilee" would lead to a HUGE social stratification among all classes whole those who were debt free before hand end up highly looking down on those who weren't debt free.

You'd end up with a REAL split country at that point as people with "wiped" credit scores and their familys would likely be persecuted and looked down opon for needing "everyone else to bail them out."

It'd be like the Great Gatsby all over again,  New Rich vs Old Rich, except it'd be all of society.


New Debt free vs Old Debt free.  Those "New debt free" people would end up screwed as they and their children get shut out of situations that others don't.

 

Heck, you'd probably see a realignment of Republican and Democrat based along those lines, as people like union workers would feel burned for working so hard only for others to get their debt reliveved for free,  while social conservative people in huge debt would then line up behind the democrats.

 

On the upside, that'd probably improve social issue legislation.

I meant more in turn of sovereign debt, that is all countries just declare that they no longer owe each other anything, and attempt to work something out so that some bondholders aren't completely fucked.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
I would think if it came down to that, the advanced economies would simply declare something akin to biblical "Jubilee," where everyone forgives everyone else's sovereign debt and just sort of starts clean.

I don't know... I mean, if you think America is classist now?

I feel like a giant "Jubilee" would lead to a HUGE social stratification among all classes whole those who were debt free before hand end up highly looking down on those who weren't debt free.

You'd end up with a REAL split country at that point as people with "wiped" credit scores and their familys would likely be persecuted and looked down opon for needing "everyone else to bail them out."

It'd be like the Great Gatsby all over again,  New Rich vs Old Rich, except it'd be all of society.


New Debt free vs Old Debt free.  Those "New debt free" people would end up screwed as they and their children get shut out of situations that others don't.

 

Heck, you'd probably see a realignment of Republican and Democrat based along those lines, as people like union workers would feel burned for working so hard only for others to get their debt reliveved for free,  while social conservative people in huge debt would then line up behind the democrats.

 

On the upside, that'd probably improve social issue legislation.

I meant more in turn of sovereign debt, that is all countries just declare that they no longer owe each other anything, and attempt to work something out so that some bondholders aren't completely fucked.

Ah, that's possible, and probably if anything how China would reach true superpower status.  As no doubt such a situation would only happen when the US and a few other major western economies were in trouble.

Causing ripples of discontent from the smaller countries before it that were forced to weather doing things the hard way.



Slimebeast said:
America is simply too strong to fall. The most powerful civilization in history after Rome.

This may sound slightly ironic since we all know Rome fell, but I truly believe history won't repeat itself in America's case.

All it takes is one very major disaster, that would hit all over the place, and America would end up being done.  Talking beyond even losing a city.  Rome fell after the barbarians sacked it.  But say the power grid permanently goes down, there will be huge problems.  America is vulnerable to such now.  There is no such thing as "too strong to fail".

The video, linked to the article, which is a sales piece to subscribe to a investor's research newsletter, does go into the big global problem of the exponential curve pattern of development, which is unsustainable, like a Ponzi scheme.  There is going to be a need to rethink everything, and come up with new ways for society to reorder itself, to survive.



Slimebeast said:
America is simply too strong to fall. The most powerful civilization in history after Rome.

This may sound slightly ironic since we all know Rome fell, but I truly believe history won't repeat itself in America's case.

The following is nothing personal, but a general observation.

As a European, statements like this make me... 'sick'. It really shows the 'arrogance', that many Americans... No that's not the best word... It shows the blinded patriotism many Americans seem to possess. Maybe I just have some 'Old World sentiment', or we get taught different things in school, but for the outsider it seems a lot of Americans think they somehow live in an impervious paradise. I will never forget a customs officer on an airport in the US when I went there several years ago. He said the following after looking at my passport;

"Mmmm, Netherlands, a long way from home I see. I'd never leave the US, it's much safer here."

I thought, okay, whatever, I can like name a dozen countries where it's a lot safer. Besides stuff like this, I hate to break it to anyone, but the US is neither the 'wealthiest' nor the 'most powerful' nor the 'greatest' nor the 'most prosperous' nation in history after Rome (or whenever). First, the US is not the biggest economy either, the Eurozone is. Second, at the height of their power, the British Empire and the Spanish Empire would run laps around the US. Hell, even the Dutch Empire would do that. You own half the world? No, but the English did. You discovered basically every bit of land known to man? No, but the Spanish/Portuguese have. You have more money than the rest of the world combined? No, but the Dutch did.

The fall of all of them, and the Romans, proves no nation is big enough or strong enough to fall.

I agree with the second part of the posted quote though, I don't believe any of today's bigger nations will 'fall' any time soon. This economical crisis that is going on is not something the world hasn't faced before. Besides, today most nations have strong diplomatic connections and agreements to help each other out. Also, it's not bad perse that a country is in debt, the most important thing is that that debt is not increasing. Countries aren't out to make profit, they just need to break even. But that seems to be the problem nowadays I guess.

As a side-note, I know there are lots and lots of very friendly people over there in the US and I hope I didn't step on too many toes with above rant.

I only went to New York (but the airport I talked about wasn't in NYC) and basically everyone I met was friendly, helpful and considerate. Going there was also one of the best vacations I ever had, I gladly want to go again (especially when my parents teased me by going to Florida) to see more! Also, you're basically the only country that produces good movies and music ...



Slimebeast said:
America is simply too strong to fall. The most powerful civilization in history after Rome.

This may sound slightly ironic since we all know Rome fell, but I truly believe history won't repeat itself in America's case.


There´s no 'too strong to fall'...one day the U.S will 'fall', and then the nation that becomes "number one" will also 'fall' eventually, there´s no 'too strong to fall' when it comes to our human society.