And that's where I think the game takes itself too seriously. Now you'll think "oh, happyd just can't be pleased", but you couldn't be farther from the truth. On the contrary, it would just prove that Nintendo doesn't have the maturity or balance to make something just right when it comes to the mood of a game.

I'll be the first to say that the music in Super Mario Galaxy was phenomenal, and it really was, there are incredible tracks in that game. But there are moments that totally ruin it for all the good ones, and the clanky and zappy sounds are cacaphonic, totally off the line of direction the artists were taking the title back in the earlier days.

It's not just personal opinions. The tunes in Tarzan for example are more balanced, they are sung by a world-renown singer called Phil collins, and they have a lot of heart and a lot of melody. They neither push too hard, nor do they lack. There are businesses that excel in making toys and forms of entertainment that please little children optimally, but are not suited for adults, like play-skool toys and whatnot. Cribtoys use the sounds that we find in Mario galaxy, as do music boxes. Sure these can be used artistically to give an eery mood, but that's not how it's being employed in Mario, quite the contrary.

Here is more cheese:

@OP: the pedoplumber looks kiddy because it's the dirty trick he uses to lure his young victims!

Nintendo is overkilling it a bit lately. I wish their Mario games were only ever so slightly less kiddy.

Super Mario 64 on N64 was a fun game kids and adults could play. It was clearly designed for an E (Everybody) audience. Although super Mario Galaxy is just as fun, the less intimidating looking Bowser, and soft tones (less scary lava levels, characters with huge eyes) really ruin the games if you ask me.

Same goes with Mario Kart. on the DS, SNES, and N64, all the tracks are very technical, and all the menu's, weapons, and sprites are design to be practical and moderatly serious. Now Mario Kart games are just way too hecktic, race tracks aren't as focused on track design, but on Visual ques. Things from a Chomp Chomp on a chain, to bouncy mushrooms.

So, I think that Mario should be just a little less kiddy. The image Mario gave up to and including the N64 was fine, same with Zelda and Pokemon. However now, in an attempt to appeal to a larger audience, or an audience which would normally not game, Nintendo has simplified the visuals too much. Mario games should be the games which mush the system, not games designed to appeal to non-gamers. They have some of the best platforming mechanics around, why ruin it with a bad cover? Why can't Bowser be intimidating again?

The links you've provided tell me you've got a bad case of nostalgia. The original Super Mario Bros.'s color palette was mainly brown because of the limitation of the hardware. In fact, most of Mario's features like his cap, his overalls and his mustache were there because they provided an easy way to differentiate between body parts with the few pixels and colors they had available for the character. As consoles got graphically stronger, Nintendo added details but still keeping in mind the original design and if you look at the picture below the evolution is pretty cohesive.

So you haven't played SM64 in about fifteen years, then?

Bowser is actually much less intimidatingly proportioned in it - his head is huge, nearly as large as his body, and his eyes are much bigger while his limbs are also smaller. Similarly, Mario's eyes are almost exactly the same size, and the lava levels were no more intimidating (the enemies were actually less so, being balls with feet and sometimes horns).

The idea that these changes - if they were real, which they aren't - ruin Mario is enough to give a person an ulcer.

"And that's where I think the game takes itself too seriously. Now you'll think "oh, happyd just can't be pleased", but you couldn't be farther from the truth. On the contrary, it would just prove that Nintendo doesn't have the maturity or balance to make something just right when it comes to the mood of a game."

No, they made the mood that they wanted.  Just not the mood that you wanted.

"I'll be the first to say that the music in Super Mario Galaxy was phenomenal, and it really was, there are incredible tracks in that game. But there are moments that totally ruin it for all the good ones, and the clanky and zappy sounds are cacaphonic, totally off the line of direction the artists were taking the title back in the earlier days."

So if not every track is perfect that means the whole soundtrack is ruined?  If they put a tone you don't approve of in the song the whole song is flawed?

And, why are you the one to decide the direction of the series?  Koji Kondo did a chunk of the music for this, and he and Miyamoto had control over the music in the game.  The team who made this game were all people who had worked on the series, so how can you say that they are taking their own series in a direction that they didn't intend?

"It's not just personal opinions. The tunes in Tarzan for example are more balanced, they are sung by a world-renown singer called Phil collins, and they have a lot of heart and a lot of melody."

A lot of heart is an entirely subjective opinion.  One can easily say that "you'll be in my heart" is overly sappy and sentimental, with a cheesy lyrics that are over the top in cheese factor.

Come stop your crying
It will be alright
Just take my hand
Hold it tight

Come on!

This is also a movie that features cutesy talking Gorillas who speak in Rosie o Donell's voice and a comic relief elephant who's afraid of water.  Like all of Disney's cheese, it features a sappy overly happy ending,.

"They neither push too hard, nor do they lack. There are businesses that excel in making toys and forms of entertainment that please little children optimally, but are not suited for adults, like play-skool toys and whatnot. Cribtoys use the sounds that we find in Mario galaxy, as do music boxes."

No they don't.  First off, the music in Mario Galaxy is far too advanced for a crib toy.  Anything in a baby's crib will be a short and repetitive loop.  Mario Galaxy's music is actually quite rich and complex.  The only theme that might fit in is the one you posted before, Rosalina's theme.

And when do we hear Rosalina's theme most prominently?  In the story room, where she's telling a story to a group of young stars.  She's reading a bedtime story, which is precisely why the music sounds like a lullabye.  By the way, the story she tells is actually incredibly somber and depressing.  Aside from that, point out any song that would fit in a baby's crib.

"Sure these can be used artistically to give an eery mood, but that's not how it's being employed in Mario, quite the contrary."

Eerie=/= adult

I think this would be a better topic if it wasn't limited to Mario. Does Mortal Kombat need to be so violent? Does Dead or Alive need to be so skimpy in the presentation of its characters? Did Infamous actually need to have a morality system?
Then again, maybe we should forget about all this and leave game direction to the creators, lest the video game industry become neutral, or boring.

Ironically, this sums up how I feel about this subject.

F0X said: I think this would be a better topic if it wasn't limited to Mario. Does Mortal Kombat need to be so violent? Does Dead or Alive need to be so skimpy in the presentation of its characters? Did Infamous actually need to have a morality system? Then again, maybe we should forget about all this and leave game direction to the creators, lest the video game industry become neutral, or boring. Ironically, this sums up how I feel about this subject.

@bold. Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe if we feel like one of our favorite companies and IPs could be better, we should express it.

happydolphin said: F0X said: I think this would be a better topic if it wasn't limited to Mario. Does Mortal Kombat need to be so violent? Does Dead or Alive need to be so skimpy in the presentation of its characters? Did Infamous actually need to have a morality system? Then again, maybe we should forget about all this and leave game direction to the creators, lest the video game industry become neutral, or boring. Ironically, this sums up how I feel about this subject. @bold. Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe if we feel like one of our favorite companies and IPs could be better, we should express it.

Maybe we need to have our priorities in order. Perhaps we should raise our concerns about gameplay primarily, because this is one area we're more than qualified to have out opinions heard. Though it could be said that money speaks far louder. If a series lives and dies solely on its dedicated fans, then I suppose the people in charge should pay very close attention. If a series has a wide, diverse fanbase consisting of people with potentially contradictory opinions, I'd say it may be better for the creators to listen to their own collective guts much more often.

The thing is the gameplay is nailed, and always has been. Super Mario Bothers has never failed in the gameplay department, as far as I'm concerned. Every single Super Mario Bros. game I've ever played, 2D and 3D, was of utmost quality when it comes to gameplay, bar a few very marginal exceptions or minigames.

The truth about the themes and worlds is that it has sadly stagnated, and many have voiced their opinions on  that front. You will tell me "what isn't broken you don't need to fix", but the truth is that it _was_ changed somewhere after Super Mario 64, by the same people that made the earlier incarnations. So, it's a matter of going in the wrong direction by these same creators (Miyamoto, Kondo for 3D Mario and Tezuka for 2D Mario).

The reason I express this need is because

1) I grew up on Mario

2) I see a very different potential for this series, one that taps into deeper emotions, like the underwater level of  Super Mario 64 (Dire Dire Docs).

and

3) This is Nintendo's greatest franchise, and needs to shine in _all_ respects, imho. I want that.

True, the games are fantastic, but I believe there is something wrong with them at the moment to make them the glorious classics they are meant to be.

Here, Jolly Roger Bay / Dire Dire Docs: