what about a 2 year old who  finds his dads gun and accidently shoots his father. He never had an intention of killing him for real. he thouht he was playing.

also not every decision we make is for profit. sometime we feel cmpassion for people and want to help out. LIke a bum on the street or sposoring a 3rd world child etc...

If a person ever does something that is the exact opposite of what it wants, then there is something that motivated it to do so. Whether he is aware of it or not.

Most criminals probably don't want to rob banks but does it anyway because they need the money. Some serial killers may feel deeply sorry for their victims but does it anyway because they enjoy it too much and want to remain mentally stable (from its own point of view).

If people ever makes a decision that goes against their will, they do so because of the profits.

Helping people out makes (most of) us feel good about ourselves. That positive feeling is the profit, and for most it has a higher value than financial profit.

Not sure why you dragged a 2 year old into this.

But in this context, "profit" doesn't necessarily mean material profit. It just means that when we help people, we profit by feeling good.

The problem with determinism is that it leads to a very nihilistic world view wherein, if you do help someone, you did it for an entirely selfish reason, i.e. because it made you feel good to do so. Overcoming your desire to keep your own money in order to give it to someone needy isn't a good or noble act, it was just a way for you to placate yourself and your desires. Worse, you could never have even made a different choice. From the moment time began, you were always destined to give that person money at that point in time.

Having a motive to choose something doesn't negate the fact that a choice is made. In the case of conflicting motives, there is the choice of which motive to follow: the desire to drink and smoke and fuck everything in sight, or the desire to live an ascetic lifestyle and rise above baser things.

According to your definition of free will, what would it even mean? Randomly choosing things for no reason whatsoever? How could such a thing exist?

Like I mentioned earlier, the purpose of this thread is not to disprove free will, but to show that the free will is never free from one's personal preference. Thus, you cannot hate anyone for commiting a crime since all it did was acting according to its preferences just like everybody else does every day. Hating them would be like hating someone with a different favorite colour than yourself, because you don't choose what to prefer.

That's why I prefer to call criminals unfortunate, and feel sorry for them (and, obviously, their unfortunate victims).

Eighth grade boy's bathroom. You're washing your hands after a tremendous shit when your best friend Tommy walks up to you and says, "Hey, you want to try smoking marijuana? I just bought it from this high school kid."

Right then and there, you're confronted with something you know little about. There's a mini-battle being waged inside of you. Conflicting information about how drugs are bad and how marijuana is harmless. How much do you trust your best friend Tommy? How much do you want to heed your parents warnings? Was Nancy Reagan or Snoop Lion Dogg right?

And the answer is: Flip a coin. You never had any free will to begin with.

Or, I suppose the best way to put it is this.

The majority of evolutionary biologists believe in free will.

If you know what an evolutionary biologist is... that should mean a lot.

Exactly the key word being most people, some just do it without thinking that it will make t fill good inside. They may be in a good mood at the time  and just dont care if they give somone a few dollars to help them out.

I must have a "personal preference" for everything then!