DirtyP2002 said: SunofKratos said: Good numbers when you imagine that Sony already bought gakai and a Musik Label for over 2 B dollars. Sometimes I wonder what Sony has to do to make their own fans say something like "I don't think this looks healthy..." Sony reports more than 300 million USD loss for the past 3 months, 6 billion for the financial year, the stock prices crashes 11% in one day, since Kaz became CEO the stock price fell 40%, they are lowering their forecasts, moody cuts their credit rating, the Yen is killing them and they kill 10.000 jobs. All of this happened in the past 8 months. The reaction you see on gaming forums is like "oh, good to see Sony is doing fine." It really amazes me.

The majority of Sony fans have admitted to the trouble Sony is in. However, as with any group, there will always be a few people that deviates from the norm. I too would be amazed if the majority of Sony fans said Sony wasn't in trouble. But that's not the case. From what I've seen, only a few people have been making the situation appear differently than what it is. Nothings amazing about that. There are odd minorities in every group. What's amazing is you fixating on such a small group to make it seem like they are actually abundant enough to be relevant (which they aren't) to make it seem acceptable to associate them with all Sony fans. Thus effectly attaching the stigma of ignorance & obliviousness to all Sony fans.

DirtyP2002 said: logic56 said: DirtyP2002 said: Chark said: DirtyP2002 said: SunofKratos said: Good numbers when you imagine that Sony already bought gakai and a Musik Label for over 2 B dollars. Sometimes I wonder what Sony has to do to make their own fans say something like "I don't think this looks healthy..." Sony reports more than 300 million USD loss for the past 3 months, 6 billion for the financial year, the stock prices crashes 11% in one day, since Kaz became CEO the stock price fell 40%, they are lowering their forecasts, moody cuts their credit rating, the Yen is killing them and they kill 10.000 jobs. All of this happened in the past 8 months. The reaction you see on gaming forums is like "oh, good to see Sony is doing fine." It really amazes me. I'm under the impression that you don't read the posts or know who the fans are. Probably over reacting to any form of positive about the company. Every can see the numbers, they've seen the numbers for a while now, they know it doesn't look healthy. How about you stop trying to rub it in, hmm? It is just that some fans are in denial and now I am the bad guy who rubs it in. Whatever makes you sleep at night. 1) denial of what that? that the numbers aren't great, I don't think anyone here thinks the numbers aren't great, it's more of a matter of how much they care, which to say the least is none. 2) we know Sony isn't going anywhere nor is this effecting their business as far as we are concerned so what's there to be upset about.....the losses, they've been losing money since this gen began and still provided the best gaming experience on any console so why the hell should we care? No sir the problem here is your,s being upset that fans aren't upset is one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen in my entire life. did them losing all this money stop them from being the largest music publisher in the world, or stop the Vita from being any less an amazing handheld, or the ps3 from selling and receiving tons of games??......nope 3) tell you what. when Sony posting losses means anything outside of kowen being able to a make a fucking tread in the Sony section every other week we'll care until then yeah see this pocket full of fucks and how none of them are given, it's going to stay that way buddy. 4) playing Gravity Rush and Wipeout 2048, with Assassins Creed, Call of Duty, and Soul Sacrifice on the horizon for my Vita, possible new model ps3 with even more new ips for my home console experience later, all to enjoy on my 55in Samsung HDTV! don't worry sweetheart I'm sleeping just fine   1) Look at the post I responded to... I was just quoting someone saying the numbers are good, which is wrong. He came up with wrong reasons as well (Gaikai, EMI) and if you don't care, why the hell are you in this thread anyway? 2) You have got to be kidding saying "this won't affect their business as far as we are concerned." It affects Sony and the future of Playstation. Again this "Sony is not going anywhere" bullshit. Is Sony immortal or something? They are a business and bleeding money for 4 or 5 years in a row now. And the "best gaming experience on any plattform" is a matter of taste. I prefer the 360, so? I am not upset that others aren't upset, you got me wrong. Again I was quoting a guy saying these are good numbers and I listed some of the things that happened this year. And again you go "does this stop the Vita from being any less an amazing handheld?" No the Vita (hardware) is good, the specs are decent, but do you think Sony will ever release a Vita 2 with a similar approach? No, because the Vita is losing money and sells terrible. So it DOES affect you. Same for the PS4. After the PS3 lost so much money as you pointed out correctly, do you think Sony will just go and make the PS4 just like they made the PS3? Nope. Does this affect you or Sony's fans / active userbase? Yes it does. As early as next year probably. yeah whatever helps you sleep at night 3) U mad bro? 4) I am playing my first Fitness game ever - Your shape 2012 (thanks to my girlfriend), and will soon start to finally play Left 4 Dead 2 with a friend of mine. I am looking forward to Halo 4, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil 6, Splinter Cell: Blacklist and Gears of War: Judgement. I play on my 46" Samsung HDTV and my Bose Soundsystem, which is absolutely amazing. Maybe I will play on my 40" Samsung HDTV in my bedroom as well. I didn't know that was part of the discussion though.

you keep saying it effects me, then go on to list a bunch hypothetical dreams for a hopefull hater.......sorry but those are none of my concerns

I never said they were immortal just that they aren't going anywhere anytime soon... do you think that they are?? I mean the Vita 2 is a whole generation away, what the fuck do I care what Sony's going to do with it, lol 'do I think the ps4 will be like the ps3" ummm..... no..... I don't actually, oh snap surprised lmao, all I know is that it will have amazing hardware and amazing games and keep up the playstation tradition of providing an amazing gaming experience, that's really all i know *shrugs shoulders*

and I'd have to give a shit before I could be mad

SONY is doomed. These numbers are horrible.

Sony reported more than 300 million USD loss for the past 3 months,
6 billion for the financial year,
the stock prices crashes 11% in one day,
since Kaz became CEO the stock price fell 40%,
they are lowering their forecasts,
moody cuts their credit rating,
the Yen is killing them and they kill 10.000 jobs.
All of this happened in the past 8 months.

Things do not look good.

Happy, DirtyP?

Dgc1808 said: SONY is doomed. These numbers are horrible. Sony reported more than 300 million USD loss for the past 3 months, 6 billion for the financial year, the stock prices crashes 11% in one day, since Kaz became CEO the stock price fell 40%, they are lowering their forecasts, moody cuts their credit rating, the Yen is killing them and they kill 10.000 jobs. All of this happened in the past 8 months. Things do not look good. Happy, DirtyP?

nope not doomed enough. Needs more future doomed no way out scenarios of ultimate DOOMED!

my I suggest commenting on how the Sony cannot afford a ps4 and the vita won't last the year...

How about discussing some steps how Sony could get out of this mess?
No, instead we are like: Sony lost 10 billion USD in the past years, but I don't care. Everything will be fine.

Looks like a childish reaction to me.

Perfect timing: Moody might downgrade Sony even further.

Approximately USD4.7 billion in debt affected
Hong Kong, August 06, 2012 -- Moody's Investors Service has placed Sony Corporation's Baa1 long-term senior unsecured bond and issuer ratings and the Prime-2 short-term ratings of Sony and its supported subsidiary, Sony Global Treasury Services Plc., on review for downgrade.

RATINGS RATIONALE

The rating actions reflect Moody's concern that weak consumer sentiment, especially in Europe and China, and a strong yen versus the euro may hinder the timely recovery of Sony's earnings and leverage.

In addition, the company's digital audio visual (AV) and mobile-phone businesses continue to be plagued by structural challenges, such as the commoditization and maturity of major products, rapid technological changes, and intense global competition. Sony has not been able to deal with these issues effectively.

On 2 August, Sony reported consolidated operating profit of JPY20.4 billion for 1Q FYE03/2013 operating margin of 1.3%, excluding non-recurring expenses and equity losses.

Moody's estimates that the company incurred an operating loss of JPY5 billion-JPY10 billion and an operating margin loss of up to 1% in its non-financial services businesses on the same basis, because of sustained operating losses in TVs and mobile phones.

TV and mobile communication products are two major product categories for Sony, accounting for about 25% of sales in its non-financial services businesses in 1Q FYE03/2013. Low margins in these segments are the major reason for Sony's low and volatile earnings.

Difficult economic conditions as well as weakened demand for compact digital cameras and portable game consoles due to the increasing usage of smartphones are also hurting earnings from digital imaging products and games (10% and 9% of the non-financial services businesses, respectively).

As a result, Sony lowered its outlook for FYE03/2013. It now expects consolidated operating income of JPY220 billion for FYE03/2013 versus its earlier estimate of JPY260 billion, excluding non-recurring expenses and equity losses, while lowering its consolidated operating margin estimate to 3.2% from 3.5%.

Based on the revised forecast, the company's reported operating margin in its non-financial services businesses, on the same basis, will be roughly 1.5%-2.0%, compared to breakeven for FYE03/2012.

Moody's expects adjusted debt/EBITDA in Sony's non-financial services businesses, excluding non-recurring expenses and equity losses, to be over 3.5x in FYE03/2013, versus more than 5x in FYE03/2012. These financial metrics are weak for the current rating level.

Moody's review will focus on Sony's ability to restore its earnings and leverage by dealing with its structural challenges effectively. Moody's will also assess Sony's investment and financial strategy. In particular, Moody's will focus on Sony's approach to strengthen and diversify its earnings base over the medium term.

The principal methodology used in rating Sony Corporation and Sony Global Treasury Services plc was the Asian Consumer Electronics Industry Methodology published in December 2010. Please see the Credit Policy page on www.moodys.com for a copy of this methodology.

Sony Corporation, headquartered in Tokyo, is one of the world's leading manufacturers of consumer electronics products.

REGULATORY DISCLOSURES

The Global Scale Credit Ratings on this press release that are issued by one of Moody's affiliates outside the EU are endorsed by Moody's Investors Service Ltd., One Canada Square, Canary Wharf, London E 14 5FA, UK, in accordance with Art.4 paragraph 3 of the Regulation (EC) No 1060/2009 on Credit Rating Agencies. Further information on the EU endorsement status and on the Moody's office that has issued a particular Credit Rating is available on www.moodys.com.

For ratings issued on a program, series or category/class of debt, this announcement provides relevant regulatory disclosures in relation to each rating of a subsequently issued bond or note of the same series or category/class of debt or pursuant to a program for which the ratings are derived exclusively from existing ratings in accordance with Moody's rating practices. For ratings issued on a support provider, this announcement provides relevant regulatory disclosures in relation to the rating action on the support provider and in relation to each particular rating action for securities that derive their credit ratings from the support provider's credit rating. For provisional ratings, this announcement provides relevant regulatory disclosures in relation to the provisional rating assigned, and in relation to a definitive rating that may be assigned subsequent to the final issuance of the debt, in each case where the transaction structure and terms have not changed prior to the assignment of the definitive rating in a manner that would have affected the rating. For further information please see the ratings tab on the issuer/entity page for the respective issuer on www.moodys.com.

The ratings have been disclosed to the rated entities or their designated agent(s) and issued with no amendment resulting from that disclosure.

Moody's considers the quality of information available on the rated entities, obligations or credits satisfactory for the purposes of issuing these ratings.

Moody's adopts all necessary measures so that the information it uses in assigning the ratings is of sufficient quality and from sources Moody's considers to be reliable including, when appropriate, independent third-party sources. However, Moody's is not an auditor and cannot in every instance independently verify or validate information received in the rating process.

Please see Moody's Rating Symbols and Definitions on the Rating Process page on www.moodys.com for further information on the meaning of each rating category and the definition of default and recovery.

Please see ratings tab on the issuer/entity page on www.moodys.com for the last rating action and the rating history. The date on which some ratings were first released goes back to a time before Moody's ratings were fully digitized and accurate data may not be available. Consequently, Moody's provides a date that it believes is the most reliable and accurate based on the information that is available to it. Please see the ratings disclosure page on our website www.moodys.com for further information.

http://www.finanzen.net/nachricht/anleihen/Sony-Corporation-Moody-s-reviews-Sony-s-Baa1-P-2-ratings-for-downgrade-1994535

DirtyP2002 said: How about discussing some steps how Sony could get out of this mess? No, instead we are like: Sony lost 10 billion USD in the past years, but I don't care. Everything will be fine. Looks like a childish reaction to me.

Sony has been reducing its overall scope of business. They cut 10,000 jobs recently and early this year they cut back on TV models which is an important step in that as TV has cost the company dearly as it's market share has dropped off significantly due to affordable product from the competition. They have ended a few gaming developers as well and though I don't have the data I'm sure the 10,000 job cuts involve some changes to assets. They are highlighting three major markets as their prime concentrations, Mobile, Gaming, and Digital Imaging. They are also looking to create a unified Sony, the "One Sony" plan.

One way they plan to acheive this and bring the company back to profitability is the introduction of PlayStation Mobile. This is almost identicle to the Android Market's platform and will be available on Vita, Xperia and HTC phones, Sony tablets, and most likely PS4 with a small chance for PS3. This platform will have a free and easy to develop for platform that allows people to create apps and game (with both touchscreen, gyro, camera AR, physical controller schemes) at the cost of $99 a year to sell, allowing for cheap aps the same way Android's and iOS's successful markets are doing now. The aps will most likely be based around the newly created Sony Entertainment Network (SEN) and allow for users to access their purchases on multiple devices. 

In addition to that they will have new home console hardware launching in, most likely, 2014 with an announcement at next year's E3. In addition, judging by PS3 sales the continued support for that console will bolster profits for the company and with a rumored redesign in the works an very active attempt is being made to supply PlayStation devices for years to come at an affordable price. This is good for software sales and will most likely allow room for additional profits on hardware itself.

PlayStation Plus has recently received an appealing overhaul which revolves around the instant game collection, providing 12 free titles at all times for PS Plus members while rotating out 46 titles a year. This subscription service provides additional revenue and can be a strong selling point for their consoles, even though strong advertisement of this feature has not been conducted yet. Offering a free 1 month trial for the purchase of a PS3 is almost the equivelent of 12 free games upon purchase.

Sony recently purchased the cloud gaming company Gaikai whose browser based cloud game demoing service holds very attractive patents and capabilities. It is only speculation but with the next generation of home consoles on the horizon the possibility of a streaming gaming service or various streaming features creates an attractive position for the gaming giant.

Another purchase landed Sony as the world's largest music publisher. From what I hear 1 in 3 songs are owned by the company. With this is place Sony is set for large profits from this industry.

That's all I really know but to me that is exciting and a sign of good things to come, especially if they hit overall profitability this year. Next quarter they expect their operating expenses to be down due to some changes they have made. Those savings will carry on to future quarters and allow for their revenues to post profit.

I'm not really sure how people want me to act as a Sony fan. There's a small minority who deflect the fact that the company as a whole is in big trouble, sure, but I think most of the fans know things are bad. And tbh, when someone like Turkish posts a positive thread about the gaming division, I don't see why it's such a big deal. He's not denying that things on the whole aren't bad, just trying to bring a bit of slightly happier news along.

I'm not going to stop liking Sony just because they're in financial trouble, just like Nintendo fans aren't jumping ship just because of two quarters of losses. And I assume Microsoft fans would still like them too (although tbh, I'm not too sure after some of the replies in here :P)

They're still the same company they were before I knew they were taking such a financial beating. They still produce great games, hardware, and they're still the same company who I loved through the past two generations. No amount of financial troubles is going to change that, so forgive me if I like to stay on the optimistic side of the fence.

So my posts startet a reaction of hate. Now ive reache my goal. No Just joking.

Some good news Sony sold his medical parts to an asian bank for 700 Million USD Dollars. But i really dont know on which quarter this will be included.

SunofKratos said: So my posts startet a reaction of hate. Now ive reache my goal. No Just joking. Some good news Sony sold his medical parts to an asian bank for 700 Million USD Dollars. But i really dont know on which quarter this will be included.

If it was a profitable venture, I'm not too sure that they are good news. They should sell or just write off the unprofitable ventures, the ones bleeding money -> mostly Bravia. They aren't going to do so, as Kaz has already said that it's a strategic brand, but I'm sure that Sony would be in a much better place without the TVs segment.