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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sony & Microsoft to be allies in next console war?

 

What do you want MS and Sony to do?

Merge. One console to rule them all. 91 30.95%
 
Stay seperate. I hate one... 104 35.37%
 
Cross play. No merger, just some partnership. 99 33.67%
 
Total:294

In the wise words of Alfred: Nevah!



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kain_kusanagi said:
Soundwave said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Soundwave said:
It would be called XBox 8 or whatever Microsoft would want it to be called. Microsoft's invested billions into the XBox brand, they would just take the Playstation name and bury it and consolidate both the XBox and PS3 audience under one brand (their own). They'd just allow Sony to publish God of War/Uncharted/Gran Turismo for them.

The "Playstation" brand would became a legacy brand on XBox Live for downloadable PSOne/PS2 games and that's basically it probably. Maybe MS would let Sony release a higher-end home theatre Sony branded XBox but that's about it.

Say hello to a $599.99 console or $149.99 w/a 4 year subscription too, lol. No competition and all that. Enjoy fellas.

What was the launch price of the PS3? Oh yeah it was $499.99-$599.99.

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours has a lot of animosity in it. You assume MS was buying the PS brand, which isn't what this rumor is about. But let's say that's the case, what it was the other way around? If Sony bought the Xbox brand you could say it would get shoved to the back and Halo,  Forza and Fable would be all that's left.

Now, to get back on topic. If Sony and MS partnered it could me almost anything. Wouldn't it be great if Sony built the box and MS developed and maintained the OS and Online infrastructure? Wouldn't it be great to get the best of both on one machine? You could play Halo and Uncharted on the same box. The only thing we would lose would be stupid fanboy hate wars.


Yeah PS3 was $500-$600. And? Without any competetion outside of Nintendo, Microsoft would just price as they please. 

If Sony-MS 'partnered', it wouldn't be almost anything. Lets be realistic. Sony is dirt broke and has three franchises in their entire portfolio that actually sell at a mid-tier rate. 

Microsoft is just becoming profitable in the game sector and they need the game business and control of the living room because of their utter failure at stopping Apple from advancing as the world's most dominant company. So they need the XBox to hang their hat on and show their investors "see, at least we got XBox right!". 

I'm just being realistic. Honestly this rumor is probably about 100% BS anyway, but if this were to realistically happen, MS would take as they please, they wouldn't "share" anything with Sony. Maybe if we're turning the clock back to circa 1999/2000, when Sony actually had something MS didn't, then it would be in MS' interests, but not today. Your idea of Sony buying anything from MS is laughable. 

If there is a joint venture between the two, it won't be Sony making the box, it will be MS. Just like MS making their own tablet now they are realizing they need to have some actual hardware to drive their broader corporate strategy. XBox brand is paramount in that. Sony is the one who would have to bend over, not the other way around. 

Today's so-called "console wars" are laughably tame anyway. Sony/MS have the same games more or less with 2-3 truly notable exclusives either way. I was around during the SNES/Genesis days ... now *that* was an intense console war. Today is nothing. 

Sure it was a war, for the companies. On the playground it wasn't anything at all. We kids would play eachother's consoles and enjoy it all. Today fanboys make the fake console wars into something you'd think actualy effects their lives.

But besides that. I agree this rumor is probably bs. But I like specualting and I think it would be good. I'm tired of having to buy so many machines. I'd love to buy one for Halo and Uncharted and another for Mario and Zelda. If I had my way all three would drop hardware and go to PC so all I'd have to do is build myself one kickass machine and upgrade every 5 years.

I wouldn't mind buying fewer hardware, but the downside to that is that good luck getting anyone to sell such a console at a "reasonable" cost. You'd be paying a lot for it, or (most likely) having to buy into a cell phone like contract, which is what MS likely wants for the game business. 

I'm just being realistic, how I could see it happening is this:

- MS goes to Sony and says "look, forget about the PS4. You're just going to burn through billions of dollars you don't have trying to compete with us. Scrap it, we'll let you support our platform, we'll give you a fat wad of cash upfront since we can see you need the money, and a yearly cut of all licensing fee revenue. You can contine on as a publisher and advisor as long as it's exclusivly for us."

Now Sony may initially balk at that, but then MS could bust out something like saying they're going to buy the Call of Duty franchise as exclusive (as Activision is up for sale). 

I don't doubt Sony can make a nice PS4. What I think is going to happen, and I'll call this right now, is MS can see Sony is hurting for cash right now. They are going to go hard after third parties to make certain IP exclusive, since both XBox 720/PS4 are starting from 0 anyway, a lot of third parties are hurting nowadays too -- I think you'll see MS cut some massive deals. 

That's just my prediction, but I can see it happening. When MS senses a weakness in a competitior like the weak position Sony is in today, they generally exploit it. That's their MO. 



Soundwave said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Soundwave said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Soundwave said:
It would be called XBox 8 or whatever Microsoft would want it to be called. Microsoft's invested billions into the XBox brand, they would just take the Playstation name and bury it and consolidate both the XBox and PS3 audience under one brand (their own). They'd just allow Sony to publish God of War/Uncharted/Gran Turismo for them.

The "Playstation" brand would became a legacy brand on XBox Live for downloadable PSOne/PS2 games and that's basically it probably. Maybe MS would let Sony release a higher-end home theatre Sony branded XBox but that's about it.

Say hello to a $599.99 console or $149.99 w/a 4 year subscription too, lol. No competition and all that. Enjoy fellas.

What was the launch price of the PS3? Oh yeah it was $499.99-$599.99.

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours has a lot of animosity in it. You assume MS was buying the PS brand, which isn't what this rumor is about. But let's say that's the case, what it was the other way around? If Sony bought the Xbox brand you could say it would get shoved to the back and Halo,  Forza and Fable would be all that's left.

Now, to get back on topic. If Sony and MS partnered it could me almost anything. Wouldn't it be great if Sony built the box and MS developed and maintained the OS and Online infrastructure? Wouldn't it be great to get the best of both on one machine? You could play Halo and Uncharted on the same box. The only thing we would lose would be stupid fanboy hate wars.


Yeah PS3 was $500-$600. And? Without any competetion outside of Nintendo, Microsoft would just price as they please. 

If Sony-MS 'partnered', it wouldn't be almost anything. Lets be realistic. Sony is dirt broke and has three franchises in their entire portfolio that actually sell at a mid-tier rate. 

Microsoft is just becoming profitable in the game sector and they need the game business and control of the living room because of their utter failure at stopping Apple from advancing as the world's most dominant company. So they need the XBox to hang their hat on and show their investors "see, at least we got XBox right!". 

I'm just being realistic. Honestly this rumor is probably about 100% BS anyway, but if this were to realistically happen, MS would take as they please, they wouldn't "share" anything with Sony. Maybe if we're turning the clock back to circa 1999/2000, when Sony actually had something MS didn't, then it would be in MS' interests, but not today. Your idea of Sony buying anything from MS is laughable. 

If there is a joint venture between the two, it won't be Sony making the box, it will be MS. Just like MS making their own tablet now they are realizing they need to have some actual hardware to drive their broader corporate strategy. XBox brand is paramount in that. Sony is the one who would have to bend over, not the other way around. 

Today's so-called "console wars" are laughably tame anyway. Sony/MS have the same games more or less with 2-3 truly notable exclusives either way. I was around during the SNES/Genesis days ... now *that* was an intense console war. Today is nothing. 

Sure it was a war, for the companies. On the playground it wasn't anything at all. We kids would play eachother's consoles and enjoy it all. Today fanboys make the fake console wars into something you'd think actualy effects their lives.

But besides that. I agree this rumor is probably bs. But I like specualting and I think it would be good. I'm tired of having to buy so many machines. I'd love to buy one for Halo and Uncharted and another for Mario and Zelda. If I had my way all three would drop hardware and go to PC so all I'd have to do is build myself one kickass machine and upgrade every 5 years.

I wouldn't mind buying fewer hardware, but the downside to that is that good luck getting anyone to sell such a console at a "reasonable" cost. You'd be paying a lot for it, or (most likely) having to buy into a cell phone like contract, which is what MS likely wants for the game business. 

I'm just being realistic, how I could see it happening is this:

- MS goes to Sony and says "look, forget about the PS4. You're just going to burn through billions of dollars you don't have trying to compete with us. Scrap it, we'll let you support our platform, we'll give you a fat wad of cash upfront since we can see you need the money, and a yearly cut of all licensing fee revenue. You can contine on as a publisher and advisor as long as it's exclusivly for us."

Now Sony may initially balk at that, but then MS could bust out something like saying they're going to buy the Call of Duty franchise as exclusive (as Activision is up for sale). 

I don't doubt Sony can make a nice PS4. What I think is going to happen, and I'll call this right now, is MS can see Sony is hurting for cash right now. They are going to go hard after third parties to make certain IP exclusive, since both XBox 720/PS4 are starting from 0 anyway, a lot of third parties are hurting nowadays too -- I think you'll see MS cut some massive deals. 

That's just my prediction, but I can see it happening. When MS senses a weakness in a competitior like the weak position Sony is in today, they generally exploit it. That's their MO. 

All successful businesses capitalize on the opportunity presented by the weakness of their competitors. That's just good smart business. The way you speak makes it sound like you think MS is the only one. If the roles were reversed Sony would do the same thing.

I like to imagine a world where a gamer can enjoy all games on one machine. In that world everything works out for the best. Is it realistic, probably not. Is this rumor real, almost certainly not. But a man can dream.



kain_kusanagi said:
SvennoJ said:

We would lose competition
- Lesser quality games, no need to push the machines as hard to lure costumers.
- Less developer aid, less funding for original games to stand out from the other guy.
- Higher starting price point, less price cuts. Not just because they can but because there is less money to be made, A lot of people buy both consoles with their accesories making more money for MS and Sony combined then if they would bring out 1 console together.
- Sales will drop off sooner, a lot of consoles at the end of the generation are bought by people getting the other console. No more option to buy that other console late in the gen with a huge catalog of great games to play.
- It will throw the door wide open for a new competitor to come in offering a specialiced loss leading games console.

The only good that I can see come from it is shorter console cycles to keep interest and fend of new competitors. But a lot of people would call that a negative as well.

Ms and Sony teaming up their online would be a much better way to keep a firm grip on the market. Cross console online play would be a huge bonus to choose a MS or Sony console over the WiiU or a new competitor. Joining there movie stores can also only be beneficial. But that is unlikely to happen as long as MS is enjoying the huge benefits of gold while Sony insists on keeping online play free.

There was plenty of heated competition between Sega and Nintendo. There's no reason to assume that wouldn't be the case with Nintendo and MSony.

It will make it easier for more people to switch to Nintendo when they already have the MSony machine. 3rd party publishers will make more effort to support both WiiU and MSony this time. Plus this gen has proven that the market is big enough for 3 consoles to sell well. Leaving a spot open for the Applebox is probably not what MS and Sony want.
Isn't that how the ps1 came about with just Sega and Nintendo on the market. Instead of working with Nintendo Sony decided to launch a console themselves. Why would Sony want to work with MS now.



SvennoJ said:
kain_kusanagi said:
SvennoJ said:
 

We would lose competition
- Lesser quality games, no need to push the machines as hard to lure costumers.
- Less developer aid, less funding for original games to stand out from the other guy.
- Higher starting price point, less price cuts. Not just because they can but because there is less money to be made, A lot of people buy both consoles with their accesories making more money for MS and Sony combined then if they would bring out 1 console together.
- Sales will drop off sooner, a lot of consoles at the end of the generation are bought by people getting the other console. No more option to buy that other console late in the gen with a huge catalog of great games to play.
- It will throw the door wide open for a new competitor to come in offering a specialiced loss leading games console.

The only good that I can see come from it is shorter console cycles to keep interest and fend of new competitors. But a lot of people would call that a negative as well.

Ms and Sony teaming up their online would be a much better way to keep a firm grip on the market. Cross console online play would be a huge bonus to choose a MS or Sony console over the WiiU or a new competitor. Joining there movie stores can also only be beneficial. But that is unlikely to happen as long as MS is enjoying the huge benefits of gold while Sony insists on keeping online play free.

There was plenty of heated competition between Sega and Nintendo. There's no reason to assume that wouldn't be the case with Nintendo and MSony.

It will make it easier for more people to switch to Nintendo when they already have the MSony machine. 3rd party publishers will make more effort to support both WiiU and MSony this time. Plus this gen has proven that the market is big enough for 3 consoles to sell well. Leaving a spot open for the Applebox is probably not what MS and Sony want.
Isn't that how the ps1 came about with just Sega and Nintendo on the market. Instead of working with Nintendo Sony decided to launch a console themselves. Why would Sony want to work with MS now.

You bring up a lot of great points. I'll discuss them one at a time.

Do people "switch" or do they more often buy two or more? Everyone I know had a Wii and one of the HD Twins. If there was a PlayBox I'd expect them to do the same. The plus for MS and Sony would be that their side of the market wouldn't be split.

Yes, 3rd party devs would port between two more than they would three. But as far as next gen goes I don't see a lot of high end games going to the Wii U after the Sony and MS hit the market. Whether together or separate MS and Sony will have more powerful hardware and devs will probably treat the Wii U like they did the Wii.

Yes the market is big enough for three. But it's possible that MS and Sony are looking at the pie and would rather share the fight for dominance rather than fight for a third each. It's possible. As for an Apple console. If it's going to happen it's going to happen. In my opinion it would actualy be harder for Apple to jump in if one machine dominated than if it was a three way split.

Sony muscled in under some very specific conditions that had little to do with the number of players already in the market. Yes Sony and Nintendo broke up their deal so Sony went alone. Sony secured a lot of big titles and build a simple machine with powerful 3D hardware. Nobody expected 3D to be a big deal, even Sega had planed the Saturn to be a 2D monster and had to tack on 3D as a response to Sony. Sony hit the market fast and forced Sega to go to market without nothing but a few rushed games. By the time Nintendo finally hit the market with the N64 Sega had made so many mistakes that Sony was nearly unstoppable. The same could happen during any generation to generation transition. If a new system hits the market making the old systems look dated people take notice.

"Why would Sony want to work with MS now."

Well I'm not sure they do. But if the rumor is true, it would probably have to do with all the money they lost developing and supporting the PS3. It's possible that neither Sony or MS want to sink the kind of money it would take to launch a new console, with the kind of specs that people expect, just to fight over 1/3 of the market. It's possible that they have looked at their numbers, the market and they have bad forecasts. It's possible that they have looked at their customers and have seen that they are the same kinds of people so instead of fighting over them when they could share. It's possible, however unlikely.



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Whatever they do, it's not really new. Remember microsoft-sony.com etc.



kain_kusanagi said:
SvennoJ said:

It will make it easier for more people to switch to Nintendo when they already have the MSony machine. 3rd party publishers will make more effort to support both WiiU and MSony this time. Plus this gen has proven that the market is big enough for 3 consoles to sell well. Leaving a spot open for the Applebox is probably not what MS and Sony want.
Isn't that how the ps1 came about with just Sega and Nintendo on the market. Instead of working with Nintendo Sony decided to launch a console themselves. Why would Sony want to work with MS now.

You bring up a lot of great points. I'll discuss them one at a time.

Do people "switch" or do they more often buy two or more? Everyone I know had a Wii and one of the HD Twins. If there was a PlayBox I'd expect them to do the same. The plus for MS and Sony would be that their side of the market wouldn't be split.

Yes, 3rd party devs would port between two more than they would three. But as far as next gen goes I don't see a lot of high end games going to the Wii U after the Sony and MS hit the market. Whether together or separate MS and Sony will have more powerful hardware and devs will probably treat the Wii U like they did the Wii.

Yes the market is big enough for three. But it's possible that MS and Sony are looking at the pie and would rather share the fight for dominance rather than fight for a third each. It's possible. As for an Apple console. If it's going to happen it's going to happen. In my opinion it would actualy be harder for Apple to jump in if one machine dominated than if it was a three way split.

Sony muscled in under some very specific conditions that had little to do with the number of players already in the market. Yes Sony and Nintendo broke up their deal so Sony went alone. Sony secured a lot of big titles and build a simple machine with powerful 3D hardware. Nobody expected 3D to be a big deal, even Sega had planed the Saturn to be a 2D monster and had to tack on 3D as a response to Sony. Sony hit the market fast and forced Sega to go to market without nothing but a few rushed games. By the time Nintendo finally hit the market with the N64 Sega had made so many mistakes that Sony was nearly unstoppable. The same could happen during any generation to generation transition. If a new system hits the market making the old systems look dated people take notice.

"Why would Sony want to work with MS now."

Well I'm not sure they do. But if the rumor is true, it would probably have to do with all the money they lost developing and supporting the PS3. It's possible that neither Sony or MS want to sink the kind of money it would take to launch a new console, with the kind of specs that people expect, just to fight over 1/3 of the market. It's possible that they have looked at their numbers, the market and they have bad forecasts. It's possible that they have looked at their customers and have seen that they are the same kinds of people so instead of fighting over them when they could share. It's possible, however unlikely.

Switch is maybe the wrong word, but that's what basically happened with me. My secondary console became the most played over time.
You're right that Wii + HDbox is more common then ps3+360, but by now plenty of people are starting to get the other HD twin as well.

When MS and Sony join it will be closer to a 50/50 split between WiiU and slightly more hd box instead of 3 thirds, MS and Sony will effectively only get a fourth each. Especially with the WiiU having a year headstart this time. And I do think 3rd party developers will not ingnore the WiiU in that case like they did the Wii.

"In my opinion it would actualy be harder for Apple to jump in if one machine dominated than if it was a three way split."
That depends, it was pretty hard for the Xbox to gain ground against the ps2, still it happened and Apple has even more cash to burn.

Apart from that I think both companies are confident they are in a good position to dominate next gen by themselves. Sony has learned from its mistakes and is ready to get back to ps2 greatness. MS is ready to take over the living room and become the preferred set top box, they are ready to go after a much bigger market.



SvennoJ said:
kain_kusanagi said:
SvennoJ said:
 

It will make it easier for more people to switch to Nintendo when they already have the MSony machine. 3rd party publishers will make more effort to support both WiiU and MSony this time. Plus this gen has proven that the market is big enough for 3 consoles to sell well. Leaving a spot open for the Applebox is probably not what MS and Sony want.
Isn't that how the ps1 came about with just Sega and Nintendo on the market. Instead of working with Nintendo Sony decided to launch a console themselves. Why would Sony want to work with MS now.

You bring up a lot of great points. I'll discuss them one at a time.

Do people "switch" or do they more often buy two or more? Everyone I know had a Wii and one of the HD Twins. If there was a PlayBox I'd expect them to do the same. The plus for MS and Sony would be that their side of the market wouldn't be split.

Yes, 3rd party devs would port between two more than they would three. But as far as next gen goes I don't see a lot of high end games going to the Wii U after the Sony and MS hit the market. Whether together or separate MS and Sony will have more powerful hardware and devs will probably treat the Wii U like they did the Wii.

Yes the market is big enough for three. But it's possible that MS and Sony are looking at the pie and would rather share the fight for dominance rather than fight for a third each. It's possible. As for an Apple console. If it's going to happen it's going to happen. In my opinion it would actualy be harder for Apple to jump in if one machine dominated than if it was a three way split.

Sony muscled in under some very specific conditions that had little to do with the number of players already in the market. Yes Sony and Nintendo broke up their deal so Sony went alone. Sony secured a lot of big titles and build a simple machine with powerful 3D hardware. Nobody expected 3D to be a big deal, even Sega had planed the Saturn to be a 2D monster and had to tack on 3D as a response to Sony. Sony hit the market fast and forced Sega to go to market without nothing but a few rushed games. By the time Nintendo finally hit the market with the N64 Sega had made so many mistakes that Sony was nearly unstoppable. The same could happen during any generation to generation transition. If a new system hits the market making the old systems look dated people take notice.

"Why would Sony want to work with MS now."

Well I'm not sure they do. But if the rumor is true, it would probably have to do with all the money they lost developing and supporting the PS3. It's possible that neither Sony or MS want to sink the kind of money it would take to launch a new console, with the kind of specs that people expect, just to fight over 1/3 of the market. It's possible that they have looked at their numbers, the market and they have bad forecasts. It's possible that they have looked at their customers and have seen that they are the same kinds of people so instead of fighting over them when they could share. It's possible, however unlikely.

Switch is maybe the wrong word, but that's what basically happened with me. My secondary console became the most played over time.
You're right that Wii + HDbox is more common then ps3+360, but by now plenty of people are starting to get the other HD twin as well.

When MS and Sony join it will be closer to a 50/50 split between WiiU and slightly more hd box instead of 3 thirds, MS and Sony will effectively only get a fourth each. Especially with the WiiU having a year headstart this time. And I do think 3rd party developers will not ingnore the WiiU in that case like they did the Wii.

"In my opinion it would actualy be harder for Apple to jump in if one machine dominated than if it was a three way split."
That depends, it was pretty hard for the Xbox to gain ground against the ps2, still it happened and Apple has even more cash to burn.

Apart from that I think both companies are confident they are in a good position to dominate next gen by themselves. Sony has learned from its mistakes and is ready to get back to ps2 greatness. MS is ready to take over the living room and become the preferred set top box, they are ready to go after a much bigger market.


I don't have the confidence that you have in the Wii U. I just don't see it repeating the Wii's sales at all. I expect it to be much more like the Gamecube. The whole Soccer Mom and Grand Parents thing has ended. Those people still have the Wiis and either they are collecting dust or they still use it but don't need anything more than Wii Fit and Wii Sports. MS and Sony will hit the market, together or not, with much more powerfull machines with true next gen technology. I just don't see the Wii U's touch pad pulling people in like the motion control thing did. Nintendo will always be fine because it's the only place to get Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc. But the big casual fad has ended and I don't see Nintendo reaching half the market. It will probably be only as successful as the Gamecube.