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Forums - General - Which religion is correct?

 

Which is the MOST accurate? Be honest.

Christianity 86 30.39%
 
Islam 87 30.74%
 
Hinduism 6 2.12%
 
Buddhism 41 14.49%
 
Sikhism 2 0.71%
 
Judaism 4 1.41%
 
Bahaism 1 0.35%
 
Confucianism 5 1.77%
 
Janism 0 0%
 
One of the other countless religions 51 18.02%
 
Total:283
Runa216 said:
If you absolutely must believe...then Agnosticism is best: the belief that there may or may not be a higher being but you can't possibly know. that way, you can chose to simply be a good person and make people here happy, and should there be a god, then if you're legitimately good, you'll be fine no matter which religion is right.

The thing that matters most is that you be a good person regardless of what you believe.

Many agnostics are not far off of the same path as Liberal Christians or Buddhists in the quest to rid themselves of idolatries (like political ideologies, fanisms, nationalism, etc...), greed, and other such things; many who identify as Agnostic-theists are on the same path, just with different terminology, and different (or even similar) culture. Liberal Theists (or interfaith practitioners), like Gandhi, saw the same path in multiple faiths (in Gandhi's case; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism).

100 years ago, the Darwins and the Huxleys of the world believed an agnostic approach to everything was necessary in order to be completely open to scientific truths.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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NolSinkler said:
TheLivingShadow said:

I'm sorry I'm answering again to the same post, but honestly I didn't even read the second part the first time around, so I thought that you were one that could be rationally talked to.

I was wrong.


Thank you for attacking me personally.  I suppose that because you've already concluded that I cannot hold rational conversation, any response to you will not be heard.  Instead of putting me into your box of irrational people, perhaps you could think about what I've said?  It may be that there are supporting thoughts behind what I've said.  Or, if I am a fool, then perhaps you could point out to me the errors in my argument.  And there are errors.  I am not perfect.  I am a one who is evolving, changing, and growing, and I hope and believe that the rest of you are doing so as well.

Now, it was said by some above that the hole in my argument is that "a negative cannot be proven", that is, that it cannot be proven that God does not exist.  This is true.  But if it cannot be proven, then we ought not go around asserting it.  If we are scientists, we ought to assert that which we can show evidence for.  It was mentioned that we can show that there is no need for God.  I will accept this premise as true.  However, it does not follow that IF we can show that there is no need for God, THEN we can truthfully claim that there is no God.  Therefore, asserting that because I have a coherent theory that does not require God does allow one to truthfully claim that there is no God.  One can, however, claim that because my particular set of beliefs does not require God in order to function properly, that I choose not to believe in God.  That same person may then argue to others that their particular belief in God is not a necessary component of having a coherent set of beliefs.  That person may not argue that the other person's beliefs are incorrect; he has not shown that they are not correct, but only that they are not necessary.

Now, the religious zealot does the same thing as the zealous atheist.  Many people will think that they can logically prove the validity of their religion, and so they will press their arguments against others.  The others may successfully counter their arguments, but the zealous man will not listen, because a particular argument has fostered their belief, and so they will not allow that argument to be dislodged, because that argument is their foundation.  In the case of Christians (which, having been raised in this culture, I am most familiar with) many are convinced by arguments that have had holes poked in them, such as Pascal's wager, or variants of the ontological argument.  They will make these arguments the basis of their faith.  Sadly enough, the Bible does not ask for you to base your faith on particular logical strains of thought.  The Bible asks you to seek first the Kingdom of God.  It asks you to place faith in Jesus Christ.

The Bible offers this; "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you".  I'm not sure what more you need.  That gives a pretty clear way to know about the Bible.  Ask, seek, knock.  Have you?

Jesus says, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself".  That gives a pretty clear way to know about Jesus.  Do you want to know if what Jesus said is true?  Well, Jesus offers this method to knowing.  Seems clear to me.

This is again a lot of assumptions presented as fact. This is what the religious zealot does; present assumptions as fact. Sadly, this means you will not even allow me to question your assumptions, because you hold them as immutable as the tree outside your window. But question them I will! God does not exist? Prove this. Heaven and Hell do not exist? Show me your argument. I am a group of atoms that will continue to exist after my consciousness and body fades? Why, then, do I separate THIS group of atoms from THE OTHER group of atoms? What a silly division! And yet, we all divide the world as such, as "me", "you", and "the other".

And then you say we would be better off without it. Please, define "better off". You have subscribed to no religious beliefs. You cannot tell us what it means to be "better off".

 

First off, there are many intelligent people who can't be rationally talked to because they tend to stick for otherwise irrational beliefs/ideas for other reasons that may not be rational, like emotions or family/peer pressure, etc. Though this is not admirable at all, it is seldom condemnable either.

I'm kind of regretting the rudeness of my post above again, but everytime I read/listen to something like the bolded above, it makes my blood boil (not literally, so please don't ask what I mean by that). Especially the rant about being "better off". We're not discussing semantics here, what he is saying should be obvious and you probably do know what he means like just about any human capable of reading and writing would. Then the only reason you would post something like that is to mock the other person and the conversation itself. It's annoying.

Just to be clear, and there is, I guess, a trivially slim chance that I'm wrong about my interpretation, in which case I must revaluate my understanding of the english language; I think that by being "better off" he meant that not following any religion would imply any one of the following or some combination of them:

A) save time and money by not having to perform religious rituals or pay a church if there is one

B) decrease the likelyhood of complications down the road (and by "down the road" I mean as more time passes)

C) not jeopardize the habit and skill of critical thinking by suspending it during religious stuff

 

***

Now on the more serious stuff.

Proving God's existence/non-existence: I'm an agnostic, by which I mean that I don't have a belief about God's existence. I also really don't care. However, the assumption "God doesn't exist" is way more justifiable than the assumption "God exists" and is at a way higher level of thought than "God from religion X exists."

At first glance, it sounds arrogant of me to say so, but examine this for a second: Let me imagine a planet that has taken shape in such a way that it is a massive guitar/piano/apple/*insert any object here*. This planet is only in my imagination at the beginning. However, I could then spread the message that the planet exists. The default position is that this planet does not exist. Therefore, saying it doesn't exist is more justifiable than saying it does, regardless of the reality of the case. Of course, this is true as long as the object hasn't been proven to exist. An object such as this planet can never be proven to not exist because the universe expands faster than the speed of light, and furthermore some galaxies are receding away from us. So though this planet *could* exist given some very odd circumstances, it may be impossible to observe it.

 




Nem said:
VXIII said:
Nem said:


If you cannot prove something exists, then by default its proven that it doesnt exist. There is no need to further prove it. It makes no sense.

Thoughts / ideas, emotions, feelings, they all exist but no one can prove that they do.


Erm... you can. Thoughts are electromagnetic pulses through the brain cells. We dont yet have the technology to determine what exactly the thought was but we can prove when you are thinking and not (there is even technology that already exists that can guide a wheel chair by reading your thoughts. Whatch brave new world with stephen hawking if you want to see it). Emotions are chemical reactions within your body (for example hormone levels rise with love), you can detect them taking out blood samples and analysing or any matter of test i am not familiar with as i dont study medicine. There are actually hormones called dopamine and timine (not sure about the name of this one) that you generate wether you are having positive or negative feelings.

Really, ignorance seems to be the only precursor for religion. If we all strive to learn, we will all realise how unproductive religion is in the grand scheme. Its nothing but the fear of death that fuels it. But wether you lie to your self or not, there really is no escaping the reality.

We can all hope for a higher life form that created us and will save us come death time. I hope such an entitiy exists as im sure everyone else does. But, you have to be able to face the fact and know that that possibility is extremely remote. And what, do you think theres a bug heaven aswell? Why are we more important than the bugs? We are not the center of the universe, we are really nothing but bugs when you look at the big picture of the cosmos. Thinking we are special is an act of extreme arrogance, even if understandable.

First of all, I respect Agnosticism. since you share that view I have no idea why you made that first statement, they doesn't go along.

All you have mentioned is interesting and true, however your first statement is still wrong. if we can prove those things exist now, people couldn't back in time, but thoughts, emotions (.. etc) existed with us all along even before we could prove them.

You need to understand that being religious is merely an attempt to understand this world, religion is NOT the opposite of science. Religion is like the frame of the picture, and science is the picture itself, they complete each other. Religion is not about ignorance and fears, those are empty claims. the last paragraph is a totally different subject.



VXIII said:
Nem said:
VXIII said:
Nem said:


If you cannot prove something exists, then by default its proven that it doesnt exist. There is no need to further prove it. It makes no sense.

Thoughts / ideas, emotions, feelings, they all exist but no one can prove that they do.


Erm... you can. Thoughts are electromagnetic pulses through the brain cells. We dont yet have the technology to determine what exactly the thought was but we can prove when you are thinking and not (there is even technology that already exists that can guide a wheel chair by reading your thoughts. Whatch brave new world with stephen hawking if you want to see it). Emotions are chemical reactions within your body (for example hormone levels rise with love), you can detect them taking out blood samples and analysing or any matter of test i am not familiar with as i dont study medicine. There are actually hormones called dopamine and timine (not sure about the name of this one) that you generate wether you are having positive or negative feelings.

Really, ignorance seems to be the only precursor for religion. If we all strive to learn, we will all realise how unproductive religion is in the grand scheme. Its nothing but the fear of death that fuels it. But wether you lie to your self or not, there really is no escaping the reality.

We can all hope for a higher life form that created us and will save us come death time. I hope such an entitiy exists as im sure everyone else does. But, you have to be able to face the fact and know that that possibility is extremely remote. And what, do you think theres a bug heaven aswell? Why are we more important than the bugs? We are not the center of the universe, we are really nothing but bugs when you look at the big picture of the cosmos. Thinking we are special is an act of extreme arrogance, even if understandable.

First of all, I respect Agnosticism. since you share that view I have no idea why you made that first statement, they doesn't go along.

All you have mentioned is interesting and true, however your first statement is still wrong. if we can prove those things exist now, people couldn't back in time, but thoughts, emotions (.. etc) existed with us all along even before we could prove them.

You need to understand that being religious is merely an attempt to understand this world, religion is NOT the opposite of science. Religion is like the frame of the picture, and science is the picture itself, they complete each other. Religion is not about ignorance and fears, those are empty claims. the last paragraph is a totally different subject.


But then you're telling me that religion is the sum of things we cant yet explain. Thats almost the same as saying a singularity is a religion cause we do not understand it. Yes, i guess you can see it as something that fills the void while we dont have the knowledge to answer something, but its not something thats used that nobly, and just like the singularity term, its just a filler until we can find the real explanation. Sometimes i wonder what the problem is with "i dont know why this happens yet"instead of  "i dont understand this, so its gotta be an almighty god that is responsible for it".

To explain my first statement, i dont believe god exists, but i hope he does. Racionally, there really is no logic reason or proof for him to exist, besides human hopes. Do i hope he does? Oh yes, who wouldnt like salvation and life after death? This hope is completely irrational and unrealistic though. But, i believe in beeing a good and kind person and not going around shooting people just because i believe theres no afterlife.



Nem said:
VXIII said:

First of all, I respect Agnosticism. since you share that view I have no idea why you made that first statement, they doesn't go along.

All you have mentioned is interesting and true, however your first statement is still wrong. if we can prove those things exist now, people couldn't back in time, but thoughts, emotions (.. etc) existed with us all along even before we could prove them.

You need to understand that being religious is merely an attempt to understand this world, religion is NOT the opposite of science. Religion is like the frame of the picture, and science is the picture itself, they complete each other. Religion is not about ignorance and fears, those are empty claims. the last paragraph is a totally different subject.


But then you're telling me that religion is the sum of things we cant yet explain. Thats almost the same as saying a singularity is a religion cause we do not understand it. Yes, i guess you can see it as something that fills the void while we dont have the knowledge to answer something, but its not something thats used that nobly, and just like the singularity term, its just a filler until we can find the real explanation. Sometimes i wonder what the problem is with "i dont know why this happens yet"instead of  "i dont understand this, so its gotta be an almighty god that is responsible for it".

To explain my first statement, i dont believe god exists, but i hope he does. Racionally, there really is no logic reason or proof for him to exist, besides human hopes. Do i hope he does? Oh yes, who wouldnt like salvation and life after death? This hope is completely irrational and unrealistic though. But, i believe in beeing a good and kind person and not going around shooting people just because i believe theres no afterlife.

If I believed for a second that science can understand and explain everything in this world even in the distant future I wouldn't be religious at all. Religion isn't supposed to answer everything we don't know yet (religion encourages science BTW “Allah will exalt in degree those of you who believe, and those who have been granted knowledge"). it the answer for the thing that is beyond our logic.. something not to be answer by science or logic. no matter how many theories we come up with it wouldn't be enough because there must be a point where it all started. that point is god. that's my simple logic to believe.

However, I understand what you're saying. people use their religion to answer everything because they don't want to think themselves or admit that they don't know.



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Soleron said:
The biggest evidence for me is that, overwhelmingly, children born keep the religion of their parents. If one religion was 'right' and the rest 'wrong', we'd expect each new child to make their own mind up and see little correlation between parent and child.

Conclusion: there's something wrong with the human mind such that it is vulnerable to parental values, without assessing whether those beliefs are true or not.

If there was a religion that very many children are converting to despite their birth religion it would be worth looking at more closely.


While most people keep the religion of their parents, most religions are in a steep decline. Clearly, some people accept what their parents did (without making a determination for themselves) and some discard it all together. Only a few religions actually see increases these days. I know that Jehovah's Witnesses are one of the few christian religions with a high rate of increase/people converting to it.



@VXIII

While I understand your position. I have to disagree with: " because there must be a point where it all started. that point is god. that's my simple logic to believe."

No there is no logical reason for a starting point. There must be just a fundamental law that sooner or later something happens when there is nothing. And voila we get an infinite successsion of universes being created/destroyed. Ofcourse there are other options like infinite Universes spreading through the Multiverse. That would mean in one of these Universes Allah exists, in another Batman.



Netyaroze said:
@VXIII

While I understand your position. I have to disagree with: " because there must be a point where it all started. that point is god. that's my simple logic to believe."

No there is no logical reason for a starting point. There must be just a fundamental law that sooner or later something happens when there is nothing. And voila we get an infinite successsion of universes being created/destroyed. Ofcourse there are other options like infinite Universes spreading through the Multiverse. That would mean in one of these Universes Allah exists, in another Batman.

Agree to disagree :), law governs things, law doesn't govern nothingness.



VXIII said:
...

Thoughts / ideas, emotions, feelings, they all exist but no one can prove that they do.

Use an MRI scanner. The electrical currents in the brain correspond to thoughts, emotions and feelings and can be predicted and interpreted.

Got anything else supposedly outside science's ability to observe?



no matter how many theories we come up with it wouldn't be enough because there must be a point where it all started. that point is god. that's my simple logic to believe.


OK, let's call that point God. How, then, do you know it has the properties usually ascribed to got - omniscience, omnipotence, goodness, that he cares about the life on Earth, that he wrote and delivered scriptures?

Even if God is outside science's reach, his actions (miracles, scripture) are very real things that can be tested.