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Forums - General - Shooting at Batman Premiere - 12 dead / Your opinions on gun laws

My condolences to their families.



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curl-6 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
curl-6 said:
My opinion on gun ownership is simple; the average person is too irresponsible and too stupid to be allowed to own something as dangerous as a gun.

Couldn't the same be said of owning something as dangerous as a car? What about having children? Seems like any idiot can get behind the wheel of a 2 ton killing machine or fail to properly raise a batch of future welfare cases.

We license people to drive, don't we?

And I fully believe people should have to get a license to have kids too.

Oh yeah, that driver's license thing sure works. All those drunk drivers, sleepy drivers, texting drivers, who've kill so many must have been driving without a license. Being an idiot doesn't seem to stop people from getting a license, and people without licenses do drive illegally. The same is true with guns and criminals. Gun crimes are by definition illegal, but criminals commit crimes. Pass as many laws as you want, people will find ways to be idiots and commit crimes.

What do you want to do. Create some kind of draconian class system where only high class people can own cars, guns, and have children? Who decides who is worthy? How is it enforced? Where do individual rights begin and state control end?

It's easy to just say, idiots should not be allowed to be idiots. It's another thing to live in a nanny state where your government has more say in your life than you do. What's next, fat people not alowed to eat? How about ugle people not alowed outside?



It's tragic what happened. You want to what's scary about it? There was no way to really prevent it. People talk about gun control and strict penalties, but the truth is banning guns or longer jail sentences doesn't actually solve the problem. Whoever this guy is, he was messed up. Even if we lived in a country where all guns were banned, that doesn't mean people aren't going to be messed up in the head. That doesn't mean they won't find some kind of outlet for their problems. Take the school shootings as an example. Whether someone is born abnormal or they develop that way, teenagers naturally have messed up minds and high school unfortunately is a breeding ground for unstable kids. So, even if the Columbine kids didn't have access to guns, they would have killed somebody, somehow since they saw it as the only solution to their problems.

So instead of talking about the gun situation in America or the judicial system, people need to stop and ask "Why do people do these things and how can we help them or possibly prevent them from carrying out violent acts?"



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kain_kusanagi said:
curl-6 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
curl-6 said:
My opinion on gun ownership is simple; the average person is too irresponsible and too stupid to be allowed to own something as dangerous as a gun.

Couldn't the same be said of owning something as dangerous as a car? What about having children? Seems like any idiot can get behind the wheel of a 2 ton killing machine or fail to properly raise a batch of future welfare cases.

We license people to drive, don't we?

And I fully believe people should have to get a license to have kids too.

Oh yeah, that driver's license thing sure works. All those drunk drivers, sleepy drivers, texting drivers, who've kill so many must have been driving without a license. Being an idiot doesn't seem to stop people from getting a license, and people without licenses do drive illegally. The same is true with guns and criminals. Gun crimes are by definition illegal, but criminals commit crimes. Pass as many laws as you want, people will find ways to be idiots and commit crimes.

What do you want to do. Create some kind of draconian class system where only high class people can own cars, guns, and have children? Who decides who is worthy? How is it enforced? Where do individual rights begin and state control end?

It's easy to just say, idiots should not be allowed to be idiots. It's another thing to live in a nanny state where your government has more say in your life than you do. What's next, fat people not alowed to eat? How about ugle people not alowed outside?

Individual rights begin and the state control is total. You are controlled from cradle to the grave. Because if we don't let the state run stupid people (and they are all stupid unless they want total state control) will do stupid and evil things. And as we all know one person can be evil but a collective of people in a government can only be altruistic. 



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Time for hype

wow,woke up to this,sounds crazy,haven't read the thread but sounds like he had a gas mask on like in the film,my news going on how he bought the guns and ammo over the counter and internet but nothing about how he is an absolute nutter,what is wrong with these people,sounds like a new system is needed to alert authorities when people buy so much ammo/guns,not that it would change anything,nutters are nutters what can we do about that

condolences to the people who have lost,why didn't someone shoot the nutcase,is he still alive



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A very unfortunate event ... This weekend should have been all about Batman , the end to an amazing trilogy . But this changes everything. Who can still be thinking about Batman after what happened ? Very unfortunate indeed.

My sincerest condolences towards the families of the dead.



The latest American mass shooting was almost a year to the day Norway mass murderer killed 77 people. America is a culture that worships guns and violence as portrayed in movies and TV. Tighter gun control laws will not work because there will always be a black market that will supply guns to criminals.



radishhead said:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19071381/shooting-at-theater-during-batman-premiere-in-colorado

I just turned on the news and I saw this incident - apparently it's the worst in the USA since a school shooting many years ago (I think), so it's extremely saddening.

Aside from just reporting the story however (which I assume American users know about already), I wondered what your opinions were regarding gun laws. It's impossible to deny that the chances of such a tragedy happening would be reduced if ownership of a gun is illegal without a license (assuming these licenses were very difficult to get, and wouldn't allow a civilian to carry one in public). Is the idea of possessing a gun an outdated idea, or is it still significant in the modern world?

I completely disagree with the premise of your question.  I don't think that just because there is a shooting, that there should be an automatic debate on gun laws and Second Amendment rights.  I see no correlation whatsoever.

Criminals are people who by definition do not abide by laws, so how can you say that law-abiding citizens should have their right to bear arms diminished or taken away because an insane person went on a rampage? 

Better yet, why would you willingly take away the right of people to defend themselves against violent crimes in progress?  If more people in that theatre had a concealed pistol, they could have taken the shooter down and saved lives.  I just see no sense in your post at all.



 

Chandler said:
mrstickball said:
Chandler said:
Guns just don't belong in the hands of civilians. I mean, what's the point? Self defense? Yeah, right. All a gun does is make shit worse.


Switzerland disagrees with you.

Nobody gives a shit about Switzerland.

Why would you willingly take away people's ability to defend themselves from a violent crime in-progress?  If more people in that theatre had been carrying a concealed pistol, they would have been able to take the shooter out and save lives.  Do you not see that?  Gun bans disarm law-abiding citizens.  Criminals by their very definition are people who do not abide by gun laws, and will procure a weapon through the black market.  All you're doing is making it more difficult to defend ourselves.



 

kain_kusanagi said:

Banning guns at this point in American's history would only put the general population in more danger. Banning liqueur didn't stop drinking. The ban of drugs doesn't stop illegal drug use. Drunk driving is illegal but people are killed nearly every day by a drunk driver. Hell, you're not supposed to speed, but you probably do anyway.

It's an old point and people who want to ban guns like to argue it doesn't matter. But I believe that if you ban guns, criminals will still have them and law abiding citizens will be defenseless. Will a ban on gun ownership reduce home gun accidents? Yes it will, but it will also reduce home defense. Criminals break the law, they will continue to break the law. What criminals do with guns today breaks the law. If the law bans guns those same criminals will break that law too. Most criminals are probably breaking a law by owning or carrying a gun anyway, but they just go and break the law anyway.

The Aurora Colorado shooter broke many laws when he opened fire on those innocent victims. To break those laws he plans for months and collected an armory of ammo and firearms. If guns were outlawed he would have found alternative methods to build his arsenal. He may have even used an alternative weapon like a pipe bomb. A gun ban would not have stopped him or even delay him. But you know what could have stopped him. Maybe, just maybe if we all carried guns and he knew that he theater would be filled with armed law abiding citizens, maybe he wouldn't have done it. Maybe he would have figured it wasn't worth the risk, knowing that as soon as he opened fire he would be gunned down by those he threatened. Maybe if more people took gun safety classes and earned conceal carry permits we would all be safer in public.

You can argue all day about what this country would be like if guns had been banned generations ago. But no such law was passed and it's too late. Guns are everywhere. The problem is they are in the wrong hands. More responsible citizens should carry than criminals. It's backwards. Why do so many people look to others for safety instead of protecting themselves? Why do they complain about criminals yet do nothing practical?

Last time I checked guns are a tool, a tool that can not harm anyone without human action. If a zoo keeper takes a monkey's ball away because the monkey keeps throwing the ball at his face. The monkey will just throw shit, maybe even just in spite. With guns and criminals, you can't even take the "ball" away, but passing a ban law would surely cause a shit storm.

 

True. Government prohibitions do not work, and have never worked. Just look at the War on Drugs.  What a waste of money and lives that has been. $1 trillion dollars, nothing to show for it.  All it does is drive the market underground and breed more crime and resentment.