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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Blu-Rays may not be big enough for Square-Enix

zarx on 05 July 2012
Aielyn said:
zarx said:
well technically you do need new hardware for bigger cards SDHC maxes out at 32GB and SDXC was only introduced in 2009. And I can't see the PS4 supporting anything less than 100GB BDXL dics which really would be more than enough for the next 10 years unless devs start using 4k cutscenes or something. I actually see pre rendering cutscenes becoming less common next gen as ingame graphics reach such high levels it really shouldn't be needed unless they skimp on RAM and they still need them to cover loading. And really without HD video games bigger than even 50GB would cost an astronomical amount to make especially with modern compression and procedural ellements. Especially as digital distrobution becomes more prevelent even on high speed broadband downloading 50GB+ games is not really practical any time  soon for most of the world.

There are advantages to flash media, but I just don't see it being cost effective for next generation. And as modern consoles are now media hubs and I think that blu-ray playback will be a big enough reason to go with that in adition to the cheaper media.

While it is true that SDHC maxes out at 32 GB, it must be noted that that standard is a standard - hence why I spoke of a proprietary variation. SDXC is set to max out at 2 TB... but the main reason for that is that the standard calls for a FAT32 file system, which itself maxes out at 2 TB. Essentially, SDXC is now safe for a good 10 years, so if it were used now, that would give it plenty of life.

As for PS4 using BDXL... at this point in time, I couldn't find a BDXL for less than $130 (standard price) or $90 (discounted) on Amazon. Based on your assertion regarding SDXC prices, the PS4 using BDXL would be absurdly expensive. And because they're both non-standard (as in, most bluray players won't read them - the vast majority of home bluray players won't be able to be updated for them) and only a small improvement on regular BluRay (as in, only 2x the space), it's likely that manufacturing costs won't be coming down anywhere near as quickly as the BluRay manufacturing costs will have (I'm referring to early reductions in costs - I'm assuming that the expensiveness of them at the moment is due to the lack of factories capable of manufacturing them). Basically, as hard as it was to get people to move from DVD to BluRay, it's going to be 10x as hard to get them to move to BDXL, and that means mass production will be difficult.

On the other hand, a variant of SDXC would be able to be created without much hassle.

Mind you, I don't see why they couldn't just do both, really - use BluRay (or BDXL, where needed) primarily earlier on, with an SD-based card technology ready for use later on. Best of both worlds. Since SD card readers are trivial to add (compared with a BluRay drive), and relatively cheap, it wouldn't put much of a dent in the cost of the system to manufacture. This also gives it the ability to act as a BluRay media player.

Not to mention that it would open up the ability to use both of them simultaneously, thereby eliminating the need for disc-switching much of the time without needing an expensive card size.

BDXL hasn't entered mass production yet and likely won't for many year, doesn't mean the PS4 won't support it at launch, once 4K movies start happening and games start using it in 2016 or whatever prices will be much lower. Anyway we are just repeating ourselves so I'm calling it quits, have a nice day : )



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melbye on 05 July 2012

Maybe they should stop making games and focus on CGI-movies instead. Their games this generation hasn't exactly been of high-quality. The best Square Enix-published game this generation has been Batman Arkham and that isn't even made by them.



Aielyn on 05 July 2012
melbye said:
Maybe they should stop making games and focus on CGI-movies instead. Their games this generation hasn't exactly been of high-quality. The best Square Enix-published game this generation has been Batman Arkham and that isn't even made by them.

How are you defining "quality"?

Also, some would argue that Dragon Quest IX beats out "Batman Arkham". At the very least, it's their best-selling game from the set of consoles and handhelds that were current in 2009 (on a single platform, at least).



JEMC on 05 July 2012

@Aielyn : I'd love to go back to cartridges on home consoles as that would mean smaller, but more importantly quieter consoles. But unfortunately it won't happen.

Think about it. If Nintendo, the last of the console makers to ditch cartidges and embrace optical discs because of its drawbacks even if that ment selling the more exepensive games ever (NeoGeo not included), and the one that has always used them on handhelds has decided to use  an optical disc with WiiU is because it's not a viable option.

What will use future consoles (N8, PS5, Xbox2160) in 8 years, if they ever exist, is anyone guess.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC on 05 July 2012
melbye said:
Maybe they should stop making games and focus on CGI-movies instead. Their games this generation hasn't exactly been of high-quality. The best Square Enix-published game this generation has been Batman Arkham and that isn't even made by them.

They already tried it with "The Spirit Within" or something called like that, and it was a major flop.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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Dark_Lord_2008 on 05 July 2012

Both FFXIII games the CGI cut scenes were the best part, the rest of the games were very mediocre. Only Final Fantasy name and its fan base prevented it from receiving lower scores and lower sales that both games thoroughly deserved. 79 to 83 averages were very generous. 69 to 73 averages were deserved if the Final Fantasy games were not Final Fantasy games. 13 was an unlucky number for Final Fantasy. 



Hynad on 05 July 2012

"When Pioneer first introduced its unicorn-like 16-layer 400GB Blu-ray Disc, we weren't sure if the thing would make it beyond the drawing board, let alone be compatible with existing BD decks. Over at the IT Month Fair in Taipei, Pioneer showed up to showcase the capacious disc, and better still, a DigiTimes report asserts that these are indeed compatible with Blu-ray readers already on the market. Currently, the 400GB disc is slated to hit mass production sometime between now and 2010, while rewritable versions won't hit until 2010 to 2012. Not like it really matters though -- a 1TB disc is on track for 2013, and you know you'll be waiting for the latest and greatest."

Source: http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/pioneer-shows-off-16-layer-400gb-blu-ray-disc-affirms-compatibi/

 

So if S-E has issues with disc space using a 400GB or that 1TB disc ...  ... ...

 

O_o



Aielyn on 05 July 2012
JEMC said:

@Aielyn : I'd love to go back to cartridges on home consoles as that would mean smaller, but more importantly quieter consoles. But unfortunately it won't happen.

Think about it. If Nintendo, the last of the console makers to ditch cartidges and embrace optical discs because of its drawbacks even if that ment selling the more exepensive games ever (NeoGeo not included), and the one that has always used them on handhelds has decided to use  an optical disc with WiiU is because it's not a viable option.

What will use future consoles (N8, PS5, Xbox2160) in 8 years, if they ever exist, is anyone guess.

I actually wonder if Nintendo isn't planning for their next console to use holographic discs. After all, even if InPhase Technologies has filed for bankruptcy, Nintendo still jointly holds a key patent, and thus is clearly interested in the technology. It's not ready for home console use, but give the technology another 8 years, and it'll probably be ready. Holographic discs have the potential to have faster read speeds and significantly higher capacity (they're already up to 1.6 TB), and I believe they don't have anywhere near as many moving parts, but they are still very expensive (hence why InPhase went bankrupt).

Anyway, the main point is that cards just aren't ready *yet* to be the main game distribution format for consoles. I just suspect that they'll probably end up ahead of discs again within, say, 4-5 years.



JEMC on 05 July 2012

@Aielyn: As I said, I'd love to go back to cartridges, even if the means wait for the next next-gen.

As for Holo discs... sorry but if you take into consideration that the Co. that has made all the work has gone down (so the price won't go down to affordable levels in a long, long time), add the fact that Blu-Ray sales haven't been as good as expected (has it surpassed DVDs already?) and take into consideration the push that has been given to digital content, I don't see a very bright future for holo discs.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

haxxiy on 05 July 2012
Aielyn said:
JEMC said:

@Aielyn : I'd love to go back to cartridges on home consoles as that would mean smaller, but more importantly quieter consoles. But unfortunately it won't happen.

Think about it. If Nintendo, the last of the console makers to ditch cartidges and embrace optical discs because of its drawbacks even if that ment selling the more exepensive games ever (NeoGeo not included), and the one that has always used them on handhelds has decided to use  an optical disc with WiiU is because it's not a viable option.

What will use future consoles (N8, PS5, Xbox2160) in 8 years, if they ever exist, is anyone guess.

I actually wonder if Nintendo isn't planning for their next console to use holographic discs. After all, even if InPhase Technologies has filed for bankruptcy, Nintendo still jointly holds a key patent, and thus is clearly interested in the technology. It's not ready for home console use, but give the technology another 8 years, and it'll probably be ready. Holographic discs have the potential to have faster read speeds and significantly higher capacity (they're already up to 1.6 TB), and I believe they don't have anywhere near as many moving parts, but they are still very expensive (hence why InPhase went bankrupt).

Anyway, the main point is that cards just aren't ready *yet* to be the main game distribution format for consoles. I just suspect that they'll probably end up ahead of discs again within, say, 4-5 years.

Extremely unlikely. Every disc costed thousands of dollars just a few years ago, and unless found a way to do what InPhase didn't manage to do over 10 years and $100,000,000 of R&D, and reduce disc costs by the order of a few magnitudes in a few years, and create a feasible way to manufacture and distribute them, it's impossible, and even then we'd be in N64 levels of media inconvenience. 

You have a better chance of seeing a quantum processor inside of the Wii-U... unless you meant after the Wii U? Well we don't even know if there is still going to be a market for consoles by then, or how technology is going to develop, so the point is moot. Anyways if anyone were to introduce a new media, that'd probably be Sony.