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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U has “capability issues” due to single processor,says VentureBeat’s Takahashi

JEMC said:
bananaking21 said:
JEMC said:
Just to clarify, what does he mean with "single processor"? Is he talking about the CPU, the GPU or another thing?


i think he means single processor as on single proccessing unit just in the Wii U, and nothing in the Wii U controller. i dont think he ment single core

While that makes a little more sense, it's a big mistake to call it "single processor" from someone working on a tech site.

well technically it is one processor, but with more than one core. maybe he doesnt talk english  and when translated it turned out this way? there is no way the Wii U has a single core processor and produce graphics like that



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Soleron said:
kanageddaamen said:
...


Not exactly.  For most games, almost all of the games' non-drawing functionality will only need to be done once, and will be handled by the CPU (Physics, AI, Animation, script processing, etc) Depending on how the 2nd screen is used, some optimization code may need to be done multiple times (LOD calculations, etc)

How much time it takes to render what is on the screen depends on a number of factors, such as Number of polygons, number of shader runs per vertex, number of fragment shaders per fragment, and screen resolution.  For a game with highly complex 3d graphics rendering on the screen (ala using the screen a a viewport into the game world) this could take a fair amount of time on the GPU to render.  However, a lot of the overhead (loading shader code, loading textures, etc) could be shared by both screens and so even in the most complex of cases, rendering to 2 screens will not be equal to rendering to one screen twice.

I already said if it was blank that wasn't more work. Since the drawing is rendered with the same complexity it's 2x the work and this is already accounted for.

No, it is almost certainly not 2 times the work, due to the reasons I pointed out.

Also note, that from a computer science standpoint, it is extraordinarily unlikely that double a screen's resolution of any rendering system will 1/2 the frame rate.  Increasing the resolution pretty much ONLY affects the fragment (or pixel if you prefer) shader's performance as more fragments are sent to the shader for processing, the vast majority of individual time slices that compose the frame's render time will not care about the resolution what so ever.  Fragment shaders are a significant chunk of the total fram time, but certainly not 100% and probably not 50% for most games.



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NightDragon83 said:

This is more of a RAM issue, and the Wii U is alleged to have at least 1.5GB, with up to 512MB dedicated to the OS and multitasking.  A multithread tri-core processor like what the Wii U is rumored to have should have no problem handling the work load.

Actually, I believe that the rumored memory footprint of the OS is incorrect. PS360 reportedly have numbers inferior to 80~100 MB. Even a full multitasking OS (like some flavour of Linux), won't use more than 300 MB. I expect that the os will use less than 200 MB with optimizations coming via firmware updates reducing this usage to less than 100 MB. 

 

kanageddaamen said:
for example, almost all lighting other than specular lighting will be view independent, so smart developers should be able to run a lot of those calculations only once.

Probably, the tablet won't use any of this. I believe that a lot of games will use the tablet for menus, inventory and secondary functions, so it won't be necessary to process complex graphic information there. Games with lower hardware requirements could use the tablet for more refined, resource-intensive tasks.

 



Why is not Galaki here dooming Nintendo? :(



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I remember when I was talking to these guys, I was saying that the Wii U was going to be more powerful than the PS3 and 360 and no one believed me. They didn't think it really had any chance of that (for I don't know what reason). People who claim they have researched into this stuff and know its capabilities can be dead wrong. We all know that it will be more powerful than the PS3 and 360 now. Who's right this time, I don't know. I just get irritated when the majority of people get stuff wrong because they believed the rumors they heard as truth.



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So the tablet won't have a processor...wasn't that the same limitations MS had to deal with when they introduced the Natal? They striped the processor out of it and it became the weaker Kinect.



Just because you chose to quote a famous dead person does not mean that you are some type of intellect nor does it mean that the quote in question is correct.

If I remember correctly, it has no independent graphics processor, just a small cheap processor to handle input, to manage actual screen functionality, and to handle the "power off" functionality of the tablet (like universal remote capabilities)

Can't do any of that without SOME processor



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Slimebeast said:
Just an association I got, but does anyone know the name of a gaming journalist who was known for being very pro-X360 and who also had a Japanese name?

I always got Takahashi confused with Microsoft's Shane Kim, but that's aside the point.



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kanageddaamen said:

...

No, it is almost certainly not 2 times the work, due to the reasons I pointed out.

Also note, that from a computer science standpoint, it is extraordinarily unlikely that double a screen's resolution of any rendering system will 1/2 the frame rate.  Increasing the resolution pretty much ONLY affects the fragment (or pixel if you prefer) shader's performance as more fragments are sent to the shader for processing, the vast majority of individual time slices that compose the frame's render time will not care about the resolution what so ever.  Fragment shaders are a significant chunk of the total fram time, but certainly not 100% and probably not 50% for most games.

You're not getting it. I know how a GPU works and what all the parts do, and the effect on performance. All that is nothing to my actual point that a "single processor" operating on a 2x larger screen is still 2x the work for a completely different image of equal complexity being on the other half (notice I said it's NOT 2x the work for a blank screen, and infer that there is a gradient of work between those two if some is shared), while the OP article claims it's insufficient as if 2 GPUs would be better when they are not due to overhead.

Also thre is no such thing as a fragment shader or vertex shader any more. All the computational units can perform both tasks.



Pavolink said:
Why is not Galaki here dooming Nintendo? :(

I was going to post this but couldn't be bother to look for who Takahashi is.

Sounds like I was right to not post since he is unlikely to know how to code "Hello World!" in html. I can't defend that.