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Forums - General Discussion - Allow me to Defend every Criminal out there

Well, yep. He didn't make the thread but I did have an encounter with him before. I knew I wasn't crazy.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4384221

Me and Machina's response

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4384381



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

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hatmoza said:


I wouldn't say completely useless. Compared to a lot of other spam posts on VGC at least. For example, If my post was indeed completely useless, what would that make your response post? Pot calling the kettle black.

And I I have a strong opinion on the matter, the fact that I decided to keep that opinion to myself is telling in itself, especially once I realized it's not worth getting myself work up over since I now undersand that this is not necessarilly an honest opinion thread, but a challenge of ideology. It's quite interesting to read, and I find it rather interesting now. 



My response was a series of questions, I don't see the problem with it. Your first sentence was meant to tell us that you wouldn't be giving your opinion. Seriously, why tell us that you are incapable of expressing yourself without getting banned? And your second post was just questioning The1's motives, which was irrelevant since there was a civil discussion already going on anyway. I just found it rather odd that for someone who constantly complains about spam posts, your post in this thread was essentially just that.

Anyway let's not keep on about it, because we're going off topic.

Jay520 said:
hatmoza said:


I wouldn't say completely useless. Compared to a lot of other spam posts on VGC at least. For example, If my post was indeed completely useless, what would that make your response post? Pot calling the kettle black.

And I I have a strong opinion on the matter, the fact that I decided to keep that opinion to myself is telling in itself, especially once I realized it's not worth getting myself work up over since I now undersand that this is not necessarilly an honest opinion thread, but a challenge of ideology. It's quite interesting to read, and I find it rather interesting now. 



My response was a series of questions, I don't see the problem with it. Your first sentence was meant to tell us that you wouldn't be giving your opinion. Seriously, why tell us that you are incapable of expressing yourself without getting banned. And your second post was just questioning The1's motives, which was irrelevant since there was a civil discussion already going on anyway. I just found it rather odd that for someone who constantly complains about spam posts, your post in this thread was essentially just that.

Anyway let's not keep on about it, because we're going off topic.

Please stop derailing the thread. I already moved on. why can't you.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

Criminals are destined by fate/chance to be criminals. It is in their DNA. Some people are born to be criminals, others are not born to be criminals.



spurgeonryan said:


I will assume that criminals, evil doers, etc still are aware that killing people is not right. It is funny that these criminals still are aware that their actions are wrong. Many ( after Prison) learn from their mistakes or just never want to go to prison again so they do not act up anymore. If something was wrong with the criminal that made them do the crime because of some mental breakdown that cannot be fixed or needs medicine to calm them, then I would feel sorry for them.

Crime is done because the human being thinks they will not get caught. It is an active choice on their part. There is no defending them. If you break the law you deserve to be punished. I am sure many people have several opportunities during their life time to break the law. Do we do it?

War criminals in Hitlers Germany could have said no, tried to leave the country, butchered their chain of command instead of torturing half of Europe, or done something else. But they did not. I see people who escape the ghetto and gangs all the time. There are options out there, but it is the person who decided to do this stuff.

Go tell that to all the homeless people in America who feel the need to steal from others to make life worthwhile/possible. Do you really want them to be punished?



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@The1

You keep saying "in a perfect world, we would...". But the fact is we don't live ina perfect world. These methods that you're suggesting, reasoning with criminals, trying to set the straight, simply isn't practical.

We don't know how to 'treat' every criminal. We don't know how long it'll take to treat every criminal. We don't know how much it'll cost to treat every criminal. We don't know if we'll have the resources required t treat every criminal. We don't even know if every criminal is treatable e etc. And how would we even test these treatment methods? Just let the murderes back out in the streets and hope we've succeeded?

Our current jail system is the most pragmatic approach which punishes & contains them.



Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:
So how should we feel bad for Hilter and Stalin? Inquiring minds want to know!

Both were raised by abusive fathers, for one. Not to say anything justifies any criminal act, let alone what they did, but they didn't just become absurdly evil for no reason.


So are a lot of children. It doesn't mean that all decide to become bastions of evil.

Everyone faces adversity. My father wasn't around very often for the first 13 years of my life. My wife's father was always verbally abusive to her. It doesn't mean we became evil personified. Do such things correlate with bad behavior? Absolutely.

But if all criminality originates from the environment - say bad parenting - then where does bad partening originate? All wrongdoing has to originate from somewhere, and there are likely choices made to create the behavior in many cases, as opposed to simply someone else's fault.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Jay520 said:
@The1

You keep saying "in a perfect world, we would...". But the fact is we don't live ina perfect world. These methods that you're suggesting, reasoning with criminals, trying to set the straight, simply isn't practical.

We don't know how to 'treat' every criminal. We don't know how long it'll take to treat every criminal. We don't know how much it'll cost to treat every criminal. We don't know if we'll have the resources required t treat every criminal. We don't even know if every criminal is treatable e etc. And how would we even test these treatment methods? Just let the murderes back out in the streets and hope we've succeeded?

Our current jail system is the most pragmatic approach which punishes & contains them.


Which is why I said that I support the current treatment + punishment system that jail has to offer. It is simply the best available solution at the moment, like you said.

(I have said this before, but anyway) This thread is not mainly about that though. It's about defending the criminals (from hate), as the title suggests. And, of course, the illogical electric chair. Why would you end someone's life because he happened to fall under the 'unfortunate' category? I say we should make that person fortunate instead.



spurgeonryan said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Go tell that to all the homeless people in America who feel the need to steal from others to make life worthwhile/possible. Do you really want them to be punished?

I do not know about other countries, but in America the average homeless person probably makes more than I do. There are plenty of programs, shelters, Religious organizations, etc that could help these type of people. America is piled with free help, free this, that and everything else. You do need to open up your mouth and ask, and do a little work, but it is possible. Same with druggies. They made the choice to do drugs, and it has gotten to the point where they have become a burden on society. Breaking the law is breaking the law. I do not care how depressed you get with life. If drugs are going to be a problem for you do not do them! I sat on a guard post for a whole year for 18 hours a day watching a damn where Afghan citizens washed themselves and used as a bathroom all day long. Did I get depressed and decide to take drugs to make life easier on myself? Start smoking heavily, drinking, etc? No! Because I did not want to ruin my life.

 

Bums are bums because they are either mentally handicapped, or lazy. I do not know what the movies have taught you, but even in the big city bums are not this horrible wretch like you see in the movies.  Swallow your pride and apologize to your family so that they will let you back in, stop doing drugs, seek help, use a shelter for and address. There is the occassional bad situation where a homeless person may just be stuck for a while and their kids are homeless for a bit. But that should never go on for too long of a time. If the parents were good parenta at all they would put their children into a foster home until they could get on their feet and take them back. It is all about decisions 'The One" Kind of like your decision to hate God. You have free will, and that is what you chose. Criminals have free will, and that is what they have chose. Should not feel sorry for them, just like no one in heaven will feel sorry for you when you ask for a drop of water as you are burning. That is not saying anything bad to you, just personal beliefs. Certainly not a reportable offense.

So, is that a yes?

 

(I don't hate God by the way. Just some of the actions that some of his followers do. I can't believe how many times I have felt the need to clarify that.)



Player1x3 said:
Also, a question to Slimebeast


How can you consider yourself a Christian when you dont think free will exists?

Good question. It's a big topic. I base it not just on naturalistic grounds but also theological. Short version: the Bible actually suggests that human's don't have much free will. It surprised me when I discovered it.

I do think we have a small free will though. Good and evil demands a free will.

(also remember that in debates such as this one can take a certain position for arguments sake)