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Forums - General - The Logical Flaw of Religious Practicing

I think you will find that you are basing your logical debunking of religious practice to be built on a rather shaky foundation.

For many (most?) (all?) religion the religious practice and traditions are followed to serve as a framework that keeps the believer in contact with their faith. The practice is not the end, but it is a means to an end.

Let's take prayer as an example, very few people think that a prayer is a magical spell that will automatically grant some sort of favor in the heavens. To pray is a technique for focusing your mind on the relationship with God. Even the most devote believers in prayer will tell you that just reciting the Lord's prayer while really just watching youporn will not bring you to the Lord.

Prayer is just one example of this, but all religions I know operate on the same level. The religious experience is always internal, a result of a focused mental effort to find 'the Truth'. Self flagellation, fast, meditation, snorting frog skin, wearing a kippha they all have the same purpose. To focus the mind of the practitioner on his faith.



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Lol i dont see how people dont believe in some form of intelligent design, it blows my mind that people believe it all started from a spark in the cosmos. Everyday i learn something new about the way the human body or even an animal functions and that proves to me we were designed. The last organ i was taught about was the thyroid and everything it does, if you can read all of the functions these small organs preform and believe we were not designed i take my hat off to you sir.



Bong Lover said:
I think you will find that you are basing your logical debunking of religious practice to be built on a rather shaky foundation.

For many (most?) (all?) religion the religious practice and traditions are followed to serve as a framework that keeps the believer in contact with their faith. The practice is not the end, but it is a means to an end.

Let's take prayer as an example, very few people think that a prayer is a magical spell that will automatically grant some sort of favor in the heavens. To pray is a technique for focusing your mind on the relationship with God. Even the most devote believers in prayer will tell you that just reciting the Lord's prayer while really just watching youporn will not bring you to the Lord.

Prayer is just one example of this, but all religions I know operate on the same level. The religious experience is always internal, a result of a focused mental effort to find 'the Truth'. Self flagellation, fast, meditation, snorting frog skin, wearing a kippha they all have the same purpose. To focus the mind of the practitioner on his faith.

Firstly, thanks for the respectful response.

Secondly, I think that what you define as the purpose of religious practice actually goes in line with what I said in the OP: "It gives you nothing but self-pleasure; an illusion that God is extra close to you since you are reaching out to Him." Your 'homemade' connection with God is in your head, in other words.

It makes sense in the sense that it makes you happy, but more religious practicing does not increase your chances of entering heaven, just like you said.



lilc64 said:
Lol i dont see how people dont believe in some form of intelligent design, it blows my mind that people believe it all started from a spark in the cosmos. Everyday i learn something new about the way the human body or even an animal functions and that proves to me we were designed. The last organ i was taught about was the thyroid and everything it does, if you can read all of the functions these small organs preform and believe we were not designed i take my hat off to you sir.


Hmm... I fail to see the connection to this topic.

It's explained by natural selection, by the way.



lilc64 said:
Lol i dont see how people dont believe in some form of intelligent design, it blows my mind that people believe it all started from a spark in the cosmos. Everyday i learn something new about the way the human body or even an animal functions and that proves to me we were designed. The last organ i was taught about was the thyroid and everything it does, if you can read all of the functions these small organs preform and believe we were not designed i take my hat off to you sir.


This raises the question who designed the designer? Intelligent Design raises far, far more questions then it answers. I don't mean to offend but I absolutely can not understand how anybody could believe in such a hypothesis when we have perfectly functional theories that, while incomplete, provide far more elegant answers. To quote one Neil Fallon "Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean".



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1. I agree with the last line of the OP. "That doesn't make sense". It's not meant to make sense.
2. It's one thing to have heard about someone, it's another thing to actually KNOW him. You're right about the fact that most religious people were told about God and the rules of their religion by a third party. But God does introduce Himself to some people in first person. He only needs a few people like that to tell everyone else, though he wants everyone else to get to the point where they also know Him on a one on one, personal level, and not by hear say.
3. I have a strong feeling that you (the OP) will soon meet God for yourself, you strike me as someone who is seriously searching for the reason why so many still believe in God. Just let me know when and how it happens.



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bouzane said:
lilc64 said:
Lol i dont see how people dont believe in some form of intelligent design, it blows my mind that people believe it all started from a spark in the cosmos. Everyday i learn something new about the way the human body or even an animal functions and that proves to me we were designed. The last organ i was taught about was the thyroid and everything it does, if you can read all of the functions these small organs preform and believe we were not designed i take my hat off to you sir.


This raises the question who designed the designer? Intelligent Design raises far, far more questions then it answers. I don't mean to offend but I absolutely can not understand how anybody could believe in such a hypothesis when we have perfectly functional theories that, while incomplete, provide a far elegant answers. To quote one Neil Fallon "Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean".

I understand completely, bringing up intelligent design does present us with far more questions than just simply believing in the big bang and millions of years of evolution. I could speak on this and as the1 brought up "Natural Selection" but as he also stated this isnt the proper thread for it so ill bow out quietly before hijacking his thread.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Firstly, thanks for the respectful response.

Secondly, I think that what you define as the purpose of religious practice actually goes in line with what I said in the OP: "It gives you nothing but self-pleasure; an illusion that God is extra close to you since you are reaching out to Him." Your 'homemade' connection with God is in your head, in other words.

It makes sense in the sense that it makes you happy, but more religious practicing does not increase your chances of entering heaven, just like you said.

Yes, the entire idea behind religion is to create a 'homemade connection with God in your head'. I realize you use this wording to imply that the connection is imaginary and just an illusion, but that is another debate for the ages.

f you operate with the axiom that a mental connection with God is all make belief and just a way to mental trick yourself, then obviously religious practice to establish this connection makes little sense. But as with all of these discussions approaching this core question from the relm of logic and physics will forever be fruitless.

As for your last point; the thinking is that a well mentained connection with God makes it easier to live the kind of life that qualifies for entering heaven. So, from that perspective, religious practice makes a lot of sense.



lilc64 said:
Lol i dont see how people dont believe in some form of intelligent design, it blows my mind that people believe it all started from a spark in the cosmos. Everyday i learn something new about the way the human body or even an animal functions and that proves to me we were designed. The last organ i was taught about was the thyroid and everything it does, if you can read all of the functions these small organs preform and believe we were not designed i take my hat off to you sir.

Seeing a process and jumping to conclusions on how this process came about or works, instead of finding the answer based on evidence or accepting that you don't know is not learning anything. 



Bong Lover said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Firstly, thanks for the respectful response.

Secondly, I think that what you define as the purpose of religious practice actually goes in line with what I said in the OP: "It gives you nothing but self-pleasure; an illusion that God is extra close to you since you are reaching out to Him." Your 'homemade' connection with God is in your head, in other words.

It makes sense in the sense that it makes you happy, but more religious practicing does not increase your chances of entering heaven, just like you said.

Yes, the entire idea behind religion is to create a 'homemade connection with God in your head'. I realize you use this wording to imply that the connection is imaginary and just an illusion, but that is another debate for the ages.

f you operate with the axiom that a mental connection with God is all make belief and just a way to mental trick yourself, then obviously religious practice to establish this connection makes little sense. But as with all of these discussions approaching this core question from the relm of logic and physics will forever be fruitless.

As for your last point; the thinking is that a well mentained connection with God makes it easier to live the kind of life that qualifies for entering heaven. So, from that perspective, religious practice makes a lot of sense.


Yes, but that makes religious practicing a third party. The kind of life that you that you live is what actually matters, meaning that you may as well stop your practicing altogether. You just confirmed my point (which confirmed yours in the first place).