Its better to give money with a open heart anyway. Most conservatives give money out of guilt.
Actually, research tends to point the other way.... Marketing is more effective on liberals when it focuses on the suffering people are going through. While it works better on republicans when it focuses on a communal duty to do right by your community.
Although this may be due to a ceiling effect because religious people in general do give more. Religious correlating of course with conservative.
You wouldn't have access to scientific journals would you?
What you just stated sounds like what he said, in description of conservatives. Appealing to communal duty is an appeal to guilt. It is focused on the individual to do what is right and personal responsibility to do this. The liberal view would be on the person being helped and trying to help them any way they can, even if it involves raising taxes. And this would make a lot of sense explaining how political talk is structured and what is said in it. The conservative view is, "Who really cares?" and a focus on what the giver does, because it is about what people do on a personal level. This individualistic view will also cause things not to be viewed systemically, and asking, what can be done to address systemic issues. Today, viewing poverty as a systemic issue, and not one of personal responsibility, is a liberal approach.
This being said, who said there it is wrong to appeal to guilt if it gets people to do the right thing? Moral conduct has guilt as part of it. Guilt is a factor to drive people to think differently on things.
No.. it's an appeal to duty to your comminity...
The study suggests Atheists won't give much to charity or care until they have to stare directly into the face of the reality of the situation. To me, that sounds like guilt. You don't give until you feel bad. It's not like these people don't know there are starving kids in africa. They just don't care until it's thrown in there face.
I'd say it's more compassionate is going out of your way to help others and instead of only when such problems are at your doorstep and you feel to bad to let them go away.
Though really, I'd argue the main difference between compassion and guilt is that those who are compassionate are people with false senses of entitlement.
Guilt, as I was speaking of it, is the situation where, when confronted with a moral code, you feel you fell short of a duty or obligation, and feel a need to make amends. It comes from what your obligations are, and focuses on your falling short. It is saying "mea culpa".
Compassion, on the other hand is, you see someone you connect with, and don't want them suffering the way you perceive they are. There is also empathy, where you walk in their shoes.
It is entirely possible for someone to have both compassion and guilt. It is also possible for conservatives to feel compassion, and liberals to have guilt.
When complaining about the govenment being 'corrupt', or 'inefficient', shouldn't the answer to those problems be to make the government more effective and more competently run?
The impression I get when I see americans discuss politics is that it is taken for granted that the government, or state is run badly.
Oh, also Richard. I don't think there is anything wrong with using guilt to cause people to give to charity.
I think people SHOULD feel guilty.
I don't know how normal people in the west live there lives and don't feel guilty about how good their lives are in comparison to people in other countries.
Hell, I don't know how I don't feel more guilty. I do more for chairty then most.
I'd like to say I wish I did more, but if I did... I'd clearly be doing more.
I'd argue however there has been significant progress towards doing more in human history. We've moved away from the selfishness of animals more and more.
Ironically though i'd argue too much of a collective focus on charity might dull the indivduals view on charity... which may or may not lead to overall negative consequences and a step away from true collectiveness as was hoped for by Marx.
Oh, also Richard. I don't think there is anything wrong with using guilt to cause people to give to charity.
I think people SHOULD feel guilty.
I don't know how normal people in the west live there lives and don't feel guilty about how good their lives are in comparison to people in other countries.
Hell, I don't know how I don't feel more guilty. I do more for chairty then most.
I'd like to say I wish I did more, but if I did... I'd clearly be doing more.
I'd argue however there has been significant progress towards doing more in human history. We've moved away from the selfishness of animals more and more.
Ironically though i'd argue too much of a collective focus on charity might dull the indivduals view on charity... which may or may not lead to overall negative consequences and a step away from true collectiveness as was hoped for by Marx.
I will say that conservatives are much more receptive of guilt in people's thinking than liberals. With this whole self-esteem non-sense teaching go about, no one is ever supposed to feel bad about themselves. This teaching has produced a generation or more of people who think they are special, and want to feel good all the time. With this has been a decline in test scores, and an increased criminal activity by youth. What is needed is more guilt about, for people to think about what is going on, and say things are not ok, and THEY personally need to change. Looking at the man in the mirror and asking him to change would be a good thing. Often times, guilt does this (now not saying the guilt should remain forever, but long enough to affect the change (some shame would help also):
Oh, also Richard. I don't think there is anything wrong with using guilt to cause people to give to charity.
I think people SHOULD feel guilty.
I don't know how normal people in the west live there lives and don't feel guilty about how good their lives are in comparison to people in other countries.
Hell, I don't know how I don't feel more guilty. I do more for chairty then most.
I'd like to say I wish I did more, but if I did... I'd clearly be doing more.
I'd argue however there has been significant progress towards doing more in human history. We've moved away from the selfishness of animals more and more.
Ironically though i'd argue too much of a collective focus on charity might dull the indivduals view on charity... which may or may not lead to overall negative consequences and a step away from true collectiveness as was hoped for by Marx.
I will say that conservatives are much more receptive of guilt in people's thinking than liberals. With this whole self-esteem non-sense teaching go about, no one is ever supposed to feel bad about themselves. This teaching has produced a generation or more of people who think they are special, and want to feel good all the time. With this has been a decline in test scores, and an increased criminal activity by youth. What is needed is more guilt about, for people to think about what is going on, and say things are not ok, and THEY personally need to change. Looking at the man in the mirror and asking him to change would be a good thing. Often times, guilt does this (now not saying the guilt should remain forever, but long enough to affect the change (some shame would help also):
I don't know... I mean, I can spend all day goofing off on the internet argueing politics. While some 8 year old in Somalia has to carry an automatic rifle and dodge gunfire just to get to a well to get polluted dirty water so he can avoid dying of dehydration.
I'd say people should feel permanently guilty about such things.
Ideally people in general in the west would try and live completely like "monks" and dedicate their money towards fixing other parts in the world. Outside a few issues like the military which would sadly be needed to avoid invasion.
Not at all realistic... but even the slightest bit of time or money spent on pleasure or recreation seems like a "sin" when people are suffering like that.
Then again, I have what i'd imagine is a peculiar world philosphy
Oh, also Richard. I don't think there is anything wrong with using guilt to cause people to give to charity.
I think people SHOULD feel guilty.
I don't know how normal people in the west live there lives and don't feel guilty about how good their lives are in comparison to people in other countries.
Hell, I don't know how I don't feel more guilty. I do more for chairty then most.
I'd like to say I wish I did more, but if I did... I'd clearly be doing more.
I'd argue however there has been significant progress towards doing more in human history. We've moved away from the selfishness of animals more and more.
Ironically though i'd argue too much of a collective focus on charity might dull the indivduals view on charity... which may or may not lead to overall negative consequences and a step away from true collectiveness as was hoped for by Marx.
I will say that conservatives are much more receptive of guilt in people's thinking than liberals. With this whole self-esteem non-sense teaching go about, no one is ever supposed to feel bad about themselves. This teaching has produced a generation or more of people who think they are special, and want to feel good all the time. With this has been a decline in test scores, and an increased criminal activity by youth. What is needed is more guilt about, for people to think about what is going on, and say things are not ok, and THEY personally need to change. Looking at the man in the mirror and asking him to change would be a good thing. Often times, guilt does this (now not saying the guilt should remain forever, but long enough to affect the change (some shame would help also):
I don't know... I mean, I can spend all day goofing off on the internet argueing politics. While some 8 year old in Somalia has to carry an automatic rifle and dodge gunfire just to get to a well to get polluted dirty water so he can avoid dying of dehydration.
I'd say people should feel permanently guilty about such things.
Ideally people in general in the west would try and live completely like "monks" and dedicate their money towards fixing other parts in the world. Outside a few issues like the military which would sadly be needed to avoid invasion.
Not at all realistic... but even the slightest bit of time or money spent on pleasure or recreation seems like a "sin" when people are suffering like that.
Then again, I have what i'd imagine is a peculiar world philosphy
Faced with situations where, intentionally or unintentionally, people are put in places where they feel they are powerless to help. So, rather than have extreme guilt go off, there is rationalizing, thinking people in dire situations actually deserve to be there, or think that individuals who have extreme good luck deserved that also. It makes life more manageable. There is also collective perceptions societies do, in order to make it so that excessive guilt doesn't happen, and can be done to justify collective behaviors, because to do different is seen as way too costly for people. People will then also latch on to deterministic ideologies believing it will just work out in the end. The train goes off the rails and people ignore it. Theologically there is talk of not only sins of commission, but also omission. Even in this, I think of forgiveness Sunday at where I go where everyone in the congregation asks everyone else for forgivess. I find I am not able to get fully through it and then wonder what i did wrong, and think deeper that, if you having wronged someone in any way, you probably don't know them well enough, and that also is wrong. No, you can't, but maybe the idea is to play the game better, rather than win. I also sit on the other side, where I am slipping between the cracks and no one seems to have answers either. I mean NO ONE. I hold out hope I can turn it around, but don't see where. I do game design for my life, because I feel I have to.
Oh, also Richard. I don't think there is anything wrong with using guilt to cause people to give to charity.
I think people SHOULD feel guilty.
I don't know how normal people in the west live there lives and don't feel guilty about how good their lives are in comparison to people in other countries.
Hell, I don't know how I don't feel more guilty. I do more for chairty then most.
I'd like to say I wish I did more, but if I did... I'd clearly be doing more.
I'd argue however there has been significant progress towards doing more in human history. We've moved away from the selfishness of animals more and more.
Ironically though i'd argue too much of a collective focus on charity might dull the indivduals view on charity... which may or may not lead to overall negative consequences and a step away from true collectiveness as was hoped for by Marx.
I will say that conservatives are much more receptive of guilt in people's thinking than liberals. With this whole self-esteem non-sense teaching go about, no one is ever supposed to feel bad about themselves. This teaching has produced a generation or more of people who think they are special, and want to feel good all the time. With this has been a decline in test scores, and an increased criminal activity by youth. What is needed is more guilt about, for people to think about what is going on, and say things are not ok, and THEY personally need to change. Looking at the man in the mirror and asking him to change would be a good thing. Often times, guilt does this (now not saying the guilt should remain forever, but long enough to affect the change (some shame would help also):
I don't know... I mean, I can spend all day goofing off on the internet argueing politics. While some 8 year old in Somalia has to carry an automatic rifle and dodge gunfire just to get to a well to get polluted dirty water so he can avoid dying of dehydration.
I'd say people should feel permanently guilty about such things.
Ideally people in general in the west would try and live completely like "monks" and dedicate their money towards fixing other parts in the world. Outside a few issues like the military which would sadly be needed to avoid invasion.
Not at all realistic... but even the slightest bit of time or money spent on pleasure or recreation seems like a "sin" when people are suffering like that.
Then again, I have what i'd imagine is a peculiar world philosphy
Faced with situations where, intentionally or unintentionally, people are put in places where they feel they are powerless to help. So, rather than have extreme guilt go off, there is rationalizing, thinking people in dire situations actually deserve to be there, or think that individuals who have extreme good luck deserved that also. It makes life more manageable. There is also collective perceptions societies do, in order to make it so that excessive guilt doesn't happen, and can be done to justify collective behaviors, because to do different is seen as way too costly for people. People will then also latch on to deterministic ideologies believing it will just work out in the end. The train goes off the rails and people ignore it. Theologically there is talk of not only sins of commission, but also omission. Even in this, I think of forgiveness Sunday at where I go where everyone in the congregation asks everyone else for forgivess. I find I am not able to get fully through it and then wonder what i did wrong, and think deeper that, if you having wronged someone in any way, you probably don't know them well enough, and that also is wrong. No, you can't, but maybe the idea is to play the game better, rather than win. I also sit on the other side, where I am slipping between the cracks and no one seems to have answers either. I mean NO ONE. I hold out hope I can turn it around, but don't see where. I do game design for my life, because I feel I have to.
Perhaps. I tend to think it goes the otherway though. People feel they are powerless to help BECAUSE they are rationalizing.
spurgeonryan said: Charities are the best route to go I think. Government is just too corrupt and too many many mistakes happen with the government. I guess the only problem with a charity is that when they are out of funds, they are just out of funds. If the government needs to help the poor, they will just go over budget and continue their state run program.
And that NEVER happens with charities...riiiiight.
“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."