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Forums - Politics - Is Mormonism a Cult?

 

Is Mormonism a Cult?

Yes, Mormonism is a dangerous cult! 42 38.18%
 
Yes, Mormonism is a cult,... 32 29.09%
 
No, Mormonism is not a Cu... 30 27.27%
 
I don't know. 4 3.64%
 
Total:108
Player1x3 on 19 June 2012
Runa216 said:
Player1x3 said:


If we go strictly by the definition of ''irrationality'' atheism is also an irrational belief system. The only thing that is rational is agnosticism

semantics.  the point still stands. Besides, this isn't about faith vs atheism or anything, this is about mormonism as a cult vs mormonism as a religion, and the meanings of those terms and the perceptions.  

That said, Atheism isn't irrational: if there's no evidence something exists, it's a fair assumption that it doesn't exist.  Agnosticism is the MOST rational of the belief systems, as it allows for the possibility for a god or no god, or multiple gods, but it's not irrational to believe that God is a manifestation of the human mind and therefore exists only as a metaphor.  Plenty in human history shows that we could very well have just made it all up.  


Atheism says higher power couldn't possibly exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Theism say higher power most certainly does exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Agnosticism says higher power could or couldn't exist, BASED ON LACK OF EVIDENCE OR REASON FOR BOTH IDEAS = RATIONAL



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Runa216 on 19 June 2012
Player1x3 said:
Runa216 said:
Player1x3 said:


If we go strictly by the definition of ''irrationality'' atheism is also an irrational belief system. The only thing that is rational is agnosticism

semantics.  the point still stands. Besides, this isn't about faith vs atheism or anything, this is about mormonism as a cult vs mormonism as a religion, and the meanings of those terms and the perceptions.  

That said, Atheism isn't irrational: if there's no evidence something exists, it's a fair assumption that it doesn't exist.  Agnosticism is the MOST rational of the belief systems, as it allows for the possibility for a god or no god, or multiple gods, but it's not irrational to believe that God is a manifestation of the human mind and therefore exists only as a metaphor.  Plenty in human history shows that we could very well have just made it all up.  


Atheism says higher power couldn't possibly exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Theism say higher power most certainly does exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Agnosticism says higher power could or couldn't exist, BASED ON LACK OF EVIDENCE OR REASON FOR BOTH IDEAS = RATIONAL

That's still not what this thread is about.  you just seem to LOOOOOOVE harping on about how Atheism is just as bad as religion...I don't think I've ever seen you in any remotely religious thread where you don't instantly jump on the "Atheism is bad, mmkay" train.  Someone's got an agendaaaaa



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Player1x3 on 19 June 2012
Runa216 said:
Player1x3 said:
Runa216 said:
Player1x3 said:


If we go strictly by the definition of ''irrationality'' atheism is also an irrational belief system. The only thing that is rational is agnosticism

semantics.  the point still stands. Besides, this isn't about faith vs atheism or anything, this is about mormonism as a cult vs mormonism as a religion, and the meanings of those terms and the perceptions.  

That said, Atheism isn't irrational: if there's no evidence something exists, it's a fair assumption that it doesn't exist.  Agnosticism is the MOST rational of the belief systems, as it allows for the possibility for a god or no god, or multiple gods, but it's not irrational to believe that God is a manifestation of the human mind and therefore exists only as a metaphor.  Plenty in human history shows that we could very well have just made it all up.  


Atheism says higher power couldn't possibly exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Theism say higher power most certainly does exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Agnosticism says higher power could or couldn't exist, BASED ON LACK OF EVIDENCE OR REASON FOR BOTH IDEAS = RATIONAL

That's still not what this thread is about.  you just seem to LOOOOOOVE harping on about how Atheism is just as bad as religion...I don't think I've ever seen you in any remotely religious thread where you don't instantly jump on the "Atheism is bad, mmkay" train.  Someone's got an agendaaaaa


 



Runa216 on 19 June 2012
Player1x3 said:
Runa216 said:

That's still not what this thread is about.  you just seem to LOOOOOOVE harping on about how Atheism is just as bad as religion...I don't think I've ever seen you in any remotely religious thread where you don't instantly jump on the "Atheism is bad, mmkay" train.  Someone's got an agendaaaaa


 

I knowI have an agenda, but at least I try to keep it to the proper respective threads, bro.  make an "Atheism is just as irrational as religion" thread and keep your agenda there.  I'm talking about Mormonism as a cult, here, and defending my stance when being accused of being a bigot. 



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Slimebeast on 19 June 2012
The Fury said:
They believe Christ is God (or part of) that makes them Christian and a religion. Whether or not the religion was founded on true principles doesn't change the fact that Mormons follow the teachings of Christ and God, in the Old and New testament, and are within their right to do so. They don't do any harm to anyone (I don't see them standing outside military funerals protesting saying it is God's work that they died), they just have an extra book.

Cults are something else entirely. LDS isn't a cult.

No, Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is a separate god, a distinct individual separate from God the father.

Traditional Christianity (Catholics, Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox) believes in the Trinity, namely that Jesus, God the father and the Holy Spirit are three persons but one being. Traditional Christianity believes there is only one god. Mormons believe in several gods.

And traditional Christianity treats those who don't acknowledge the Trinity as heretics and cults.



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Kasz216 on 19 June 2012
bouzane said:
richardhutnik said:
EdHieron said:
richardhutnik said:
Chris Hu said:
In my book all organized religions are cults.

 

 

Considering that Marxism was the single greatest ideology of death during the 20th century, and due to population size, ended up causing more deaths than religions beliefs in other centuries combined, I am not going to say it is religion that did it.  Apparently, there is something that happens when you combine any ideology with government, that causes mass death and other horrors.  This should be expected, since the role of government is to act as collective coersion against its population, for the greater good.

Care to provide numbers to back up your absurd statement about Marxism? Also, if the actions of Stalin are to be blamed on Marxism then why not blame atrocities such as the Vietnam war on Capitalism?

Marxism calls for a worldwide revolution and a conversion of the entire world into marxism because in Karl Marx's view it would be the only way to really accomplish Communism.

Capitalism doesn't have a similar proclimation... Free Market Capitalists believeing that capitalism is superior and will convert other nations through merit.  (and more or less has.)

This is why the Cold war was focused on spreading and containing communism.

 

Also, worth noting Marixism requires a revolution... Marx was EXTREMLY critical of "marxist" communist political parties, seeing them as sellouts who had no real comprhension of what his vision was, seeing them as damaging, because they would become wateredown puppets of the rich.



EdHieron on 19 June 2012
richardhutnik said:
EdHieron said:
richardhutnik said:
Chris Hu said:
In my book all organized religions are cults.

In a general sociological sense, that is true, along with any collective philosophical school of thought, that has followers and common practices that make it unique:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

Now, if one wants to start saying that the negative associations with the word "cult" apllies to all major religions, that is subject to MUCH debate.


Well, when you look at the history of all major religions in the Western World which is basically the same thing as the history of all major cults in the Western world, there are definite reasons to apply negative associations to them.  How many people did the Catholics and the Protestants kill from the beginning of the Inquisition to the end of the witchcraft craze and today how many people have they denied their rights by playing a major role in trying to stop women from being able to get abortions and by keeping gays from being able to get married?

Considering that Marxism was the single greatest ideology of death during the 20th century, and due to population size, ended up causing more deaths than religions beliefs in other centuries combined, I am not going to say it is religion that did it.  Apparently, there is something that happens when you combine any ideology with government, that causes mass death and other horrors.  This should be expected, since the role of government is to act as collective coersion against its population, for the greater good.

In regards to abortion, the other side, if you want to pay attention, is that abortion takes a human life.  That is the argument.  You go down a big huge long line of arguments involving the meaning of viability and so on.  If you don't want to think or understand this, it looks merely like there is a desire to make life difficult for women.  The desire to block homosexual civil unions comes out of evangelicals who can't even figure out how to get married, so their collective guilt needs to get channeled somewhere.  And I say it this way, because the calling it marriage is part of the reason why it also gets blocked.  Idea is for homosexuals who want the full benefits of marriage, to get those benefits, not to suddenly cause people who think marriage is this, to change their definition of what they think marriage is.  If I had my druthers, I would have everything called marriage today, in civil courts relabelled "Civil Unions" by the way, and leave people calling it marriage on a personal level.

Re:  Marxism Stalin aspired to be an Orthodox Monk and Hitler though not a Communist did profess a devout believe in Catholicism and the Nazi's belt buckles said:  "God with Us", plus they received a great deal of financial support from the Catholics and other Christians.

Well, on its way to being a fully fledged human being an embryo passes through quite a few stages that resemble other animals far more than they resemble anything human, and while in these earlier stages, I think the bulk of scientific evidence would support the contention that it's not a human life at an earlier stage of development.



EdHieron on 19 June 2012
T.Rexington said:
Really, a cult is nothing more than a small following of ideals that usually differ from the norm. Christianity was cult once in and of itself. I don't Mormonism is a cult simply because it's too big to be one I think.


Okay, then like the Catholics that actually believe there's anything at all special about the Pope and some of the other ones, I guess Mormonism's expansionist efforts have proven successful enough for it to earn the distinction of being  a Mega Cult.  Video from youtube's http://www.youtube.com/user/styxhexenhammer666

 



EdHieron on 19 June 2012
Player1x3 said:
EdHieron said:
Player1x3 said:
Runa216 said:
Jumpin said:
EdHieron said:
Jumpin said:
EdHieron said:

One of the leading US Presidential candidates this year is Mitt Romney.  Romney belongs to a religion whose adherents all practically claim that they are Christians like most of the other citizens in the US; however, there is a significant portion of the population that thinks their religion is quite a bit more mysterious than that, and it has even been stated in some circles that Mormonism is actually a cult.

 

Do you think that Mormonism is a cult?

Asking if "Mormonism is a religion or a cult" is the same as asking "Is Elton John a homosexual or a fag?"

It's just plain impolite disparagement to the group to label them as a cult considering the implication of the labels these days.


Not really, one has to remember that the beliefs of religious groups tend to be on the extreme right wing and there's little ( if any ) scientific evidence to support them.  On the other hand such a question about Elton John would tend to come from someone on the far right like the Mormons which is why they supported Prop 8 and most scientific evidence would indicate that being homosexual is not an abberration of any type; however, staunchly supporting an ideology that has no basis in reality is quite an aberation.  

It's way simpler than that; nothing to do with science or politics. If you call Mormonism a cult instead of a religion, you are insulting them in the same way as you be if you were calling Elton John a fag instead of a homosexual. It's just out of pure ignorance to use either of the insulting terms.

They kind of deserve to be insulted, dude.  They follow unsupported theories and try to push it on people worldwide by harassing us at our homes, being weird and creepy, and borderline aggressive about it.  

If they can't handle the heat, get out of the fire. 

At least homosexuality is a natural thing that's been scientifically proven to be normal in a certain percentage of the population.  Calling Elton John a fag is a hate crime.  Calling a crazy religion (or any religion) a cult is pretty accurate.  


So its accurate because you believe so?


I've listed its characteristics and highly regarded books, etc, that confirm that those are its characteristics, so I would say its accurate because its accurate.  When people believe in things that are patentlt untrue, continue to hold those believes when presented with scholarly evidence of why they're untrue, and attempt to bring others into their ideology, that's cultish behavior.

Now if anyone could present scholarly evidence from the majority of the Biblical Critics and Archaeologists at the highest rated universities that Mormonism is really the one and only true religion as Joseph Smith said it was, I would have to revise my contentions.


I look beyond that and see an organization that has done tremendous amount of good in this world, and whose followers are generally know to be very friendly and helpful


But do you ever look at the fact that its higher-ups want to fulfill Joseph Smith and Bringham Young's goals of overthrowing the United States and setting up a Mormon Theocracy?  And I've had LDS ( not even talking about the kookier offshoots like the FLDS ) tell me that when Jesus comes back they're going to bring back polygamy, and I've heard them say about a woman going to their church that apparently did something they considered to be a sin that she should've been stoned to death.



Aielyn on 19 June 2012
Player1x3 said:

Atheism says higher power couldn't possibly exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Theism say higher power most certainly does exist based on NO EVIDENCE OR REASON THAT POINTS TOWARDS IT = IRRATIONAL

Agnosticism says higher power could or couldn't exist, BASED ON LACK OF EVIDENCE OR REASON FOR BOTH IDEAS = RATIONAL

Two points, here.

First of all, there's such a thing as "weak atheism", which is taking the position that a higher power doesn't exist purely due to lack of evidence otherwise. As I like to put it, it's absence of belief rather than belief in the absence. This could be called the scientific form of atheism, which posits that something shouldn't be expected to exist if there is no evidence supporting its existence. Should such evidence (strong enough to be convincing) be found, a "weak atheist" would have no problem accepting the existence.

Second of all, there are logical arguments that challenge the idea that a "higher power" of the descriptions given in pretty much every religion could exist. For instance, a common challenge is the challenge to omnipotence - can god create an item that even god cannot destroy? If so, then there is something that god cannot destroy, and thus god is not omnipotent. If not, then there is something that god cannot create, and thus god is not omnipotent.

This second point is best described by the classic argument, "think of the reason why you reject the existence of every other god of every other religion - for the same reason, I reject the existence of yours".

Oh, and it's also possible to rationally be a theist. Subjective evidence in favour of the existence of god is still valid for rational belief. Some people have experiences for which the best explanation that they can find is that it must be a higher power. That this evidence cannot possibly be shared with others in any sort of objective sense is irrelevant to that point.

And agnostics are as capable of being as irrational with their position as anybody else.