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Forums - Gaming - What real 'next gen' is there actually in the Wii U...?!

GameAnalyser said:
the_dengle said:

If the question is, "How much of a step up from the PS3 and 360 is the Wii U?" then the answer is, "An immeasurable one." You can put a clear value on power (although we haven't nailed that value down just yet), but you can't put a clear value on a different controller. Does the Wii U GamePad represent an improvement in controller design over Sony's DualShock? It's impossible to say for sure, because it's an obvious matter of opinion.

Yeah. An immeasurable one - 8GB hard drive. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352365/full-wii-u-specs-allegedly-leaked-at-e3-tri-core-cpu-15gb-ram-8gb-flash/ though unofficial they still aren't buzzwords as you mention.

Did you read past that sentence?



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thetonestarr said:
Captain_Tom said:

Oh, there absolutely is a big difference there. But right now, anybody doing something multiplat is a moron if they don't at least look into porting it to WiiU too. Right now, it's going to be easy as pie to port the games, and they'll absolutely find enough sales to at least make it worthwhile (already-developed games that are easy to port really only need to make 50,000-100,000 sales to turn a profit on the port).

This is going to end up getting them all used to working on it while also giving WiiU a respectable early lineup. Respectable early lineup = more early adopters. More early adopters = larger potential market. And larger potential market = developers are more interested in taking advantage of it.


And since games can be 100% traditional on the WiiU without sacrificing ANY potential buyers whatsoever (except those that refuse to play things that don't use the screen), I really don't see devs not being interested. It just doesn't make sense. The only reason we didn't see more games on the Wii wasn't because it was weaker. There was almost absolutely zero concern there (save from companies like Epic, who are very few and far between). The main issue was that devs didn't want to have to do motion controls, or wanted to be able to do more than the Wiimote + nunchuck could offer WITHOUT motion controls, and the Classic Controller sales were far too low to do that. There just wasn't a big enough market on the Wii for traditional games.

But WiiU's userbase will be 100% traditional-game capable. And since graphically, it won't be lacking either (even in comparison to neXtbox/PS4, it's really going to be more like the difference between current 360 vs current top-of-the-line PC at most), the devs that were once iffy on graphical capability won't be anymore.

And actually, the WiiU will be also setting the first standard for next generation, especially since Sony and MS didn't announce anything this year - meaning they probably aren't releasing until 2014 (honestly, if they were releasing next year, they would have announced something at E3 to try stealing any attention from WiiU that they possibly could. Hold back the competition as much as possible, etc, etc). Two years as the best thing on the market will make WiiU's initial installbase pretty respectable, even if it starts off particularly slow. Assuming it starts off really slow, they'll have an installbase of 20m by PS4/neXtbox release, and if it's a runaway success, could be around 50m. Either way, it'll have been wildly successful financially for Nintendo. Remember, GCN turned a consistent profit, keeping Nintendo always in the black, at only 22m final installbase.

Do you have any idea how big of a difference that is?  Metro:2033 on Ultra in 1080p at 60 FPS looks easily a generation+ ahead of even Gears3!  I would say the difference is close to the one between MGS3 on PS2 and MGS4 on PS3.  

Look I used to hate PC gaming and stuck to my PS3.  I still love my PS3, but coming from just building a gaming PC, I can say the difference is huge.  Mine is not even top of the line!  

I hate PC elitests, but nothing annoys me more than someone that clearly doesn't know what they are talking about!  

Case and point:  Top of the line PC in 2012 = PS5.

Thanks, I have a Radeon HD6870 and I'm very familiar with what it can do. No, it's not the absolute top of the line, but it's not far off, and it IS quite a bit more "powerful" than what's in the 360. But the visuals as of yet released that are capable on it are NOT anywhere near "a generation+" the way you describe it. This is a widely known and documented fact, and one that has also been mentioned a variety of times in similar fashion in other threads recently.

 

Yes, they're decently better, but not so much so that developers will be all that motivated to worry about it, and not so much so that gamers will be that concerned, either. The biggest difference from here on out isn't how many polygons or teraflops or how detailed the textures are, but how many models are possible and how many textures it can push. Those each are affected the most by the things that the WiiU has upgraded the most.


Again imo the difference is the same as that between MGS4 and MGS3.  Remember MGS3 looked great and kinda still does, even on PS2.  Also two things:

1.) I think your definition of "Top of the Line" is far different than mine.  I have a 6950 2GB Overclocked and it definately is NOT top of the line.  Also it is ~30-40% stronger than yours based on benchmarks.  

Top of the line means TOP. OF. THE. LINE.  That would be 3x 580's or 6970's in SLI or Hell 4x GTX 680's (Though 4 680's is insane).  

2.) What games are you playing?  I can play Metro: 2033 and Crysis 2 on Ultra in 1080p at 30+ FPS and idk what you have seen, but I easily think they look a generation ahead of Crysis 2 on the 360 and even Uncharted 3 on PS3 .  At 1080p AA isn't an issue and there is detail you can't even see in 720p.

Go find someone with a 1600p monitor running BF3 at 60 FPS because that IS top of the line, and it looks 1-2 generations ahead of BF3 on PS3 while having more than double the players.



the_dengle said:
GameAnalyser said:
the_dengle said:

If the question is, "How much of a step up from the PS3 and 360 is the Wii U?" then the answer is, "An immeasurable one." You can put a clear value on power (although we haven't nailed that value down just yet), but you can't put a clear value on a different controller. Does the Wii U GamePad represent an improvement in controller design over Sony's DualShock? It's impossible to say for sure, because it's an obvious matter of opinion.

Yeah. An immeasurable one - 8GB hard drive. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352365/full-wii-u-specs-allegedly-leaked-at-e3-tri-core-cpu-15gb-ram-8gb-flash/ though unofficial they still aren't buzzwords as you mention.

Did you read past that sentence?

If I hadn't, I wouldn't have bothered to quote.

 



GameAnalyser said:
the_dengle said:
GameAnalyser said:
the_dengle said:

If the question is, "How much of a step up from the PS3 and 360 is the Wii U?" then the answer is, "An immeasurable one." You can put a clear value on power (although we haven't nailed that value down just yet), but you can't put a clear value on a different controller. Does the Wii U GamePad represent an improvement in controller design over Sony's DualShock? It's impossible to say for sure, because it's an obvious matter of opinion.

Yeah. An immeasurable one - 8GB hard drive. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352365/full-wii-u-specs-allegedly-leaked-at-e3-tri-core-cpu-15gb-ram-8gb-flash/ though unofficial they still aren't buzzwords as you mention.

Did you read past that sentence?

If I hadn't, I wouldn't have bothered to quote.

 


Dengle was saying that while you can put a more objective view on hardware stats (which the 8GB Harddrive falls into), he then mentions that it turns into a more subjective approach when you start talking about how games are played and how enjoyment is received by that (which he mentions the unique controller).

You totally didn't understand his post. And then you confirmed it a second time. Grats buddy.



WII U is going to sell out at launch

Not only do you have the wii's 3 top selling games all represented ( mario would sell it out by itself)

but you have the best launch lineup to grace a nintendo console ever

you combine that with a likely 300 price tag with packaged in nintendoland

and you have a winner this holiday

nintendo knows what its doing



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stealth20k said:
WII U is going to sell out at launch

Not only do you have the wii's 3 top selling games all represented ( mario would sell it out by itself)

but you have the best launch lineup to grace a nintendo console ever

you combine that with a likely 300 price tag with packaged in nintendoland

and you have a winner this holiday

nintendo knows what its doing

This



               

i guess its customary to doubt nintendo and then eat crow later

but compare this with the 3ds, which is number 1 now.......

3ds had layton 5, pilot wings, street fighter, shadow wars, nintendogs and cats.........


wii has p 100, mario, pikmin, game and wario, tekken 2 tag, and so much more



Aielyn said:
FromDK said:
And the nextbox (and if it comes ps4) will not be much better than wii U.. becurse nintendo are going back to having a power beast.. just like N64 and GC.. and the differents. will be like 360 vs ps3 (one year betwen)

Based on rumoured specs, the Wii U is not a "power beast". If you look at Moore's Law (number of transistors able to be cheaply put on a chip doubles every 2 years), and its generalisation (says that overall speed, which includes both clock speed and transistor count, doubles every 1.5 years), and then look at Nintendo consoles starting with the NES, an interesting thing becomes apparent - the NES, Wii, and Wii U all lie on the line described by that generalisation, but the SNES lies a bit above it, the N64 further above, and the GC even further above again.

What Nintendo did with the Wii was revert back to the sustainable power level, and the Wii U has sustained it.

The reason why the next generation of Xbox and PS will not be significantly powerful compared with Wii U is that releasing such a powerful system is not financially sensible, and neither MS nor Sony are in a position to waste money on raw power, especially given what Nintendo showed with the Wii. In order for Sony and MS to retain a comparable lead vs Nintendo in terms of power, they would again have to risk faulty systems (like RROD), sell their systems at a loss (and still be overpriced), and they would have to up the cost of development to massive proportions.

Simply put, if third parties have to spend $100 million+ on a game in order to have it even perform OK against the competition, they're not going to take any risks, and they're not going to release many titles. It doesn't make for a thriving development ecosystem, and so neither company will risk trying to retain "power beast" status. They will instead follow Nintendo's lead and focus more on user interface issues like the controller (they're already doing this, with Kinect (and now, Smartglass) and Move). Indeed, this is precisely why we haven't yet heard of their "next-gen" systems - because they can do a fair bit to alter the interface without changing the system itself. They will only release a new system when they experience dramatic decline in sales, because of a lack of motivation otherwise.

Whether the Wii U will cause such a decline in the 360 or PS3 sales patterns is yet to be seen. It will probably take a reasonable chunk out of them, though.

I know moore's law.. :) That's why it's ridiculous to think that wii-u will be at the same level as this gen.

And Nintendo want's the 3. party this gen to.. meaning.. power beast... very simple..:)



Gens are not measured by power
Dreamcast was part of the 128 bit gen? of course it was, even though it was like 4 times less powerful than the Xbox, still Shenmue 2 was ported to the Xbox without any visual improvement...

WiiU is a next gen, deal with it...



the more powerful system is only number 1 in maybe 1 percent of the gens