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Forums - Gaming - What real 'next gen' is there actually in the Wii U...?!

Metallicube said:

Guess it depends on what your definition of "next gen" is. For my money, next gen is a brand new console with brand new games and features, with improved hardware. So yeah, WiiU is "next gen."

I don't know what people expect to see out of Sony and MS's next consoles. I have a feeling they are going to be dissapointed. After all, how much better can graphics get at this point? Even if MS and Sony have improved graphics from Wii U, I can't possbily see them being much better to the point of being obviously noticable, and justifying $400 + new controllers/accessories. I see it being more like the Xbox 360 to PS3 comparison.

My definition of next gen is infact  good number of  brand new games/IPs being able to represent the recent real-time tech demos shown just as in the case of Lucas Arts' Star Wars and Square Enix's Final Fantasy. So yeah, it's different for me. PCs kept changing hardware from 2005(almost when current gen began). Consoles didn't and the games evolved to look on par with games running on current line of high end PCs with a significantly improved hardware since 2005. You know it when for an instance you compare geforce 6800 GT to geforce gtx 680. An improved  hardware alone doesn't pretty much cut it. A lower priced PS3/360 with the proposed add-on features like Smartglass/ extended Move/PSV features would suffice most gamers. And for the new IPs with new Wii Pad , they never came up with anything as innovative as they did with Wii back in 2005. Sorry IMO, Wii U stands too far behind to project itself as the ideal next gen or atleast as the worthy successor.



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d21lewis said:
Kresnik said:
d21lewis said:

That's what Sony did with the PS2.  When the Gamecube and Xbox released in 2001, the came face to face with Final Fantasy X, Jak and Daxter, Metal Gear Solid 2, Ico, Devil May Cry, and a bevy of instant classics.  The competition never stood a chance.

I know this is getting a bit off topic but: I remember the first time I saw Jak and Daxter 1 on the PS2, I was absolutely blown away by it.  Genuinely the most graphically impressive game around on the market at that time.

I can see Nintendo doing something like this with the Wii-U, like you rightly say.  Metroid Prime 4 taking full advantage of the better tech?


Same, here.  After a year of only playing Red Faction, NBA Street, Zone of the Enders (great looking game) and The Bouncer, when the REAL heavy hitters came out in late 2001, I didn't know which awesome game I wanted to play first!  Jak and Daxter was one of those games that showed what we were waiting for.  It didn't even have load times!

And that approach, now that I think about it, has been done many times before.  The N64 facing off against Tomb Raider and Resident Evil in 1996,  The PS2's launch games facing off against Jet Set Radio and Shenmue, the PS3 launching against Gears of War, or the Vita launching against Mario Kart 7 and 3D Land.  When the competition arrives, I think Nintendo will release the Kraken on their asses.  The question is:  will people overlook the Wii U's best games (like they did with the Dreamcast) or will they embrace the console and its games like they did with the PS2.  2nd gen Wii U titles will likely be on par or better than launch games for the PS4/720.

Well this is to be seen certainly. Also do remember how insanely gamers were blown away with Call of duty Modern Warfare on PS360. Wii tried to, but bogged down. I do not wish Wii U going down the similar track.



I suppose that's a good question, @ OP.
Since its basically on par with the current gen, would it be considered by gamers as next gen.
I mean, basically it is the next gen, it's just not really the next gen from a technical or hardware standpoint



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash


Oh, there absolutely is a big difference there. But right now, anybody doing something multiplat is a moron if they don't at least look into porting it to WiiU too. Right now, it's going to be easy as pie to port the games, and they'll absolutely find enough sales to at least make it worthwhile (already-developed games that are easy to port really only need to make 50,000-100,000 sales to turn a profit on the port).

This is going to end up getting them all used to working on it while also giving WiiU a respectable early lineup. Respectable early lineup = more early adopters. More early adopters = larger potential market. And larger potential market = developers are more interested in taking advantage of it.


And since games can be 100% traditional on the WiiU without sacrificing ANY potential buyers whatsoever (except those that refuse to play things that don't use the screen), I really don't see devs not being interested. It just doesn't make sense. The only reason we didn't see more games on the Wii wasn't because it was weaker. There was almost absolutely zero concern there (save from companies like Epic, who are very few and far between). The main issue was that devs didn't want to have to do motion controls, or wanted to be able to do more than the Wiimote + nunchuck could offer WITHOUT motion controls, and the Classic Controller sales were far too low to do that. There just wasn't a big enough market on the Wii for traditional games.

But WiiU's userbase will be 100% traditional-game capable. And since graphically, it won't be lacking either (even in comparison to neXtbox/PS4, it's really going to be more like the difference between current 360 vs current top-of-the-line PC at most), the devs that were once iffy on graphical capability won't be anymore.

And actually, the WiiU will be also setting the first standard for next generation, especially since Sony and MS didn't announce anything this year - meaning they probably aren't releasing until 2014 (honestly, if they were releasing next year, they would have announced something at E3 to try stealing any attention from WiiU that they possibly could. Hold back the competition as much as possible, etc, etc). Two years as the best thing on the market will make WiiU's initial installbase pretty respectable, even if it starts off particularly slow. Assuming it starts off really slow, they'll have an installbase of 20m by PS4/neXtbox release, and if it's a runaway success, could be around 50m. Either way, it'll have been wildly successful financially for Nintendo. Remember, GCN turned a consistent profit, keeping Nintendo always in the black, at only 22m final installbase.

Do you have any idea how big of a difference that is?  Metro:2033 on Ultra in 1080p at 60 FPS looks easily a generation+ ahead of even Gears3!  I would say the difference is close to the one between MGS3 on PS2 and MGS4 on PS3.  

Look I used to hate PC gaming and stuck to my PS3.  I still love my PS3, but coming from just building a gaming PC, I can say the difference is huge.  Mine is not even top of the line!  

I hate PC elitests, but nothing annoys me more than someone that clearly doesn't know what they are talking about!  

Case and point:  Top of the line PC in 2012 = PS5.



I see little next generation in Wii U. We will have to see, but I think Wii U will not be a lot more powerful than 360 or PS3.



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this site is full of madness
it is a next gen console by definition



Captain_Tom said:

Oh, there absolutely is a big difference there. But right now, anybody doing something multiplat is a moron if they don't at least look into porting it to WiiU too. Right now, it's going to be easy as pie to port the games, and they'll absolutely find enough sales to at least make it worthwhile (already-developed games that are easy to port really only need to make 50,000-100,000 sales to turn a profit on the port).

This is going to end up getting them all used to working on it while also giving WiiU a respectable early lineup. Respectable early lineup = more early adopters. More early adopters = larger potential market. And larger potential market = developers are more interested in taking advantage of it.


And since games can be 100% traditional on the WiiU without sacrificing ANY potential buyers whatsoever (except those that refuse to play things that don't use the screen), I really don't see devs not being interested. It just doesn't make sense. The only reason we didn't see more games on the Wii wasn't because it was weaker. There was almost absolutely zero concern there (save from companies like Epic, who are very few and far between). The main issue was that devs didn't want to have to do motion controls, or wanted to be able to do more than the Wiimote + nunchuck could offer WITHOUT motion controls, and the Classic Controller sales were far too low to do that. There just wasn't a big enough market on the Wii for traditional games.

But WiiU's userbase will be 100% traditional-game capable. And since graphically, it won't be lacking either (even in comparison to neXtbox/PS4, it's really going to be more like the difference between current 360 vs current top-of-the-line PC at most), the devs that were once iffy on graphical capability won't be anymore.

And actually, the WiiU will be also setting the first standard for next generation, especially since Sony and MS didn't announce anything this year - meaning they probably aren't releasing until 2014 (honestly, if they were releasing next year, they would have announced something at E3 to try stealing any attention from WiiU that they possibly could. Hold back the competition as much as possible, etc, etc). Two years as the best thing on the market will make WiiU's initial installbase pretty respectable, even if it starts off particularly slow. Assuming it starts off really slow, they'll have an installbase of 20m by PS4/neXtbox release, and if it's a runaway success, could be around 50m. Either way, it'll have been wildly successful financially for Nintendo. Remember, GCN turned a consistent profit, keeping Nintendo always in the black, at only 22m final installbase.

Do you have any idea how big of a difference that is?  Metro:2033 on Ultra in 1080p at 60 FPS looks easily a generation+ ahead of even Gears3!  I would say the difference is close to the one between MGS3 on PS2 and MGS4 on PS3.  

Look I used to hate PC gaming and stuck to my PS3.  I still love my PS3, but coming from just building a gaming PC, I can say the difference is huge.  Mine is not even top of the line!  

I hate PC elitests, but nothing annoys me more than someone that clearly doesn't know what they are talking about!  

Case and point:  Top of the line PC in 2012 = PS5.

Thanks, I have a Radeon HD6870 and I'm very familiar with what it can do. No, it's not the absolute top of the line, but it's not far off, and it IS quite a bit more "powerful" than what's in the 360. But the visuals as of yet released that are capable on it are NOT anywhere near "a generation+" the way you describe it. This is a widely known and documented fact, and one that has also been mentioned a variety of times in similar fashion in other threads recently.

 

Yes, they're decently better, but not so much so that developers will be all that motivated to worry about it, and not so much so that gamers will be that concerned, either. The biggest difference from here on out isn't how many polygons or teraflops or how detailed the textures are, but how many models are possible and how many textures it can push. Those each are affected the most by the things that the WiiU has upgraded the most.



 SW-5120-1900-6153

creampie said:
this site is full of madness
it is a next gen console by definition

^ This. Actual generations have nothing to do with power or new IPs. Note that if your mother gives birth in the same year as you or your wife, those two children are of the same generation, even though one is the other's aunt/uncle. A similar concept applies to technology. The Wii was barely more powerful than the X-Box, and not even close to the 360 or PS3, but it was a 7th-gen console because of when it was released.

If you mean anything other than that by "next gen," you are using a vague definition at best and mere buzzwords at worst. If the question is, "How much of a step up from the PS3 and 360 is the Wii U?" then the answer is, "An immeasurable one." You can put a clear value on power (although we haven't nailed that value down just yet), but you can't put a clear value on a different controller. Does the Wii U GamePad represent an improvement in controller design over Sony's DualShock? It's impossible to say for sure, because it's an obvious matter of opinion.

Even disregarding the fact that new IPs are not a requirement for next-gen status, your claim that no new IPs were shown off for Wii U is erroneous. You may actually have been stating that none of the new IPs shown were "stunning," but again, this is a matter of opinion. LEGO is technically an established IP, but LEGO City appears to represent enough of a departure from traditional LEGO gameplay that it counts as a new IP, the way Paper Mario is a separate IP from Mario Party. Like it or not, Nintendo Land is an obvious first-party new IP. Project P-100 is a brand new IP from Platinum Games. There are other new IPs announced but not really shown, although I doubt anyone here cares about SiNG or the sports game Ubisoft is making. Even ZombiU, a revival of a 26-year-old game, is basically a new IP.



the_dengle said:
creampie said:
this site is full of madness
it is a next gen console by definition

^ This. Actual generations have nothing to do with power or new IPs. Note that if your mother gives birth in the same year as you or your wife, those two children are of the same generation, even though one is the other's aunt/uncle. A similar concept applies to technology. The Wii was barely more powerful than the X-Box, and not even close to the 360 or PS3, but it was a 7th-gen console because of when it was released.

If you mean anything other than that by "next gen," you are using a vague definition at best and mere buzzwords at worst. If the question is, "How much of a step up from the PS3 and 360 is the Wii U?" then the answer is, "An immeasurable one." You can put a clear value on power (although we haven't nailed that value down just yet), but you can't put a clear value on a different controller. Does the Wii U GamePad represent an improvement in controller design over Sony's DualShock? It's impossible to say for sure, because it's an obvious matter of opinion.

Even disregarding the fact that new IPs are not a requirement for next-gen status, your claim that no new IPs were shown off for Wii U is erroneous. You may actually have been stating that none of the new IPs shown were "stunning," but again, this is a matter of opinion. LEGO is technically an established IP, but LEGO City appears to represent enough of a departure from traditional LEGO gameplay that it counts as a new IP, the way Paper Mario is a separate IP from Mario Party. Like it or not, Nintendo Land is an obvious first-party new IP. Project P-100 is a brand new IP from Platinum Games. There are other new IPs announced but not really shown, although I doubt anyone here cares about SiNG or the sports game Ubisoft is making. Even ZombiU, a revival of a 26-year-old game, is basically a new IP.

Yeah. An immeasurable one - 8GB hard drive. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/352365/full-wii-u-specs-allegedly-leaked-at-e3-tri-core-cpu-15gb-ram-8gb-flash/ though unofficial they still aren't buzzwords as you mention.



Nintendo knows that 3rd-party will treat the WiiU as 3rd or not-so-important. One of the main goal of designing the WiiU is ultrasmooth and very lowcost porting. And that's what we were seeing at the E3 and it is impressive for a "lazy" port.