By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Wii U Has 8 GB of Internal Storage

8GB sounds good to me. I probably won`t download many eshop/VC games, so 8GB might be enough for me and if i want more i can always buy an SD Card.



Around the Network
pezus said:
TomaTito said:
pezus said:
blunty51 said:
Wouldn't the transfer rate for usb-attached HDDs be pretty slow?

Yes, unless it is USB 3.0 (which I doubt).

If you would have informed yourself you would know that all four usb ports in the Wii U system are 2.0. I think we knew this since last year. 2.0 is fast enough for HD content, it's just slower when transfering, but if it's reading the files it should be fine.

Networking
Wii U can access the Internet via wireless (IEEE 802.11b/g/n) connection. The console features four USB 2.0 connectors – two in the front and two in the rear – that support Wii LAN Adapters.

Source: e3.nintendo.com

Indeed, which is why I said I doubted it. I want to see a USB 2.0 reading/writing vs. say a laptop 7200 rpm drive.


if you are comparing USB2 to SATA3 HDD on a laptop(5400 or 7200 makes almost no difference in this case due to HDDs reaching performance cap, where SSDs have not, even with SATA6), you are looking at 2-4x faster on the laptop setup.



Nintendo likely goes this route, first and foremost, for durability reasons. I believe flash memory is more durable than putting a harddrive in there. Hey, maybe I am wrong, but I believe that is the case. It is likely cheaper also.



Khuutra said:
gumby_trucker said:

Not true. I did the math, I'll post it if anybody's interested.

The bottom line is a non-crap USB 2.0 HDD will have transfer rates at least as good as the optical drive Nintendo is most likely to include.

Lay that sweet math on me, brother

All about some math

 

so the theoretical maximum transfer rate for USB2.0 is 60 MB/s (480 Mb/s) but the actual maximum transfer rate is closer to half that number:
"the full real-life maximum throughput of USB 2.0 is approximately 32 MB/s" according to Tom's Hardware.
For comparison the Xbox 360s optical drive had a transfer rate of half that number at around 15.8 MB/s and the PS3 even less than that. Since by default games are read from the Optical drive, that is the transfer rate we have to beat, and we must do it consistently.

Blu Ray 1x read speed is 36 Mbit/sec but no commercial drive is any slower than 2x because you need at least 54 Mbit/sec to play movies. This means that in order to have an optical drive that is faster than USB 2.0 Nintendo would have to go with an 8x BluRay or better. Having an 8x BluRay drive would seem to be overkill as it would have transfer speeds 2-2.5 times faster than the fastest console this gen, the X360. That leaves us with 4x or 6x drives.

In 2006 Sony went with the cheapest drive possible which is 2x (=72 Mbit/sec) because they needed to keep costs low. As a result they created a severe bottle-neck in data access (even slower than the 360 DVD drive) and this has hampered developers all through the generation. Nintendo would be stupid to repeat this mistake, especially since prices have gone down a lot since 2006. 

For now I am assuming Nintendo will go with the cheaper option, i.e. 4x Bluray which means 144 Mbit/sec for continuous reads. This puts Wii U slightly above the 360, which had a 12x DVD drive at 132 Mbit/sec maximum read speed. Remember that Wii U has WAY more RAM than the PS3 or 360, therefor even if assets are in higher resolution I don't think it justifies going with a faster drive than 4x Bluray. If the system can stream data not only to RAM but also to the onbaord Flash memory than this is even more true.

Now hard drives for the 360 and PS3 were probably faster than this, but still, any decent USB 2.0 drive today manages actual transfer rates of 22-26 MByte/sec = 176-208 Mbit/sec. This is something I can attest to, having recently purchased such a drive and doing the comparisons myself. Therefor as long as the drive doesn't drop below 18 Mbyte/sec (=144 Mbit/sec) during continuous transfers, it shouldn't make a difference to the software in comparison to 4x BluRay as far as data being delivered. Even if Nintendo does decide to go with 6x Bluray (216 Mb/2 or 27 MB/s), many top of the line USB 2.0 drives would still be able to exceed the optical drive's transfer rate.

There are crappy USB 2.0 drives in the market that don't do 18 Mbyte/sec continuous, but as long as customers know to avoid them, we should be fine. Therefor Nintendo would be smart to publish a "consumer guideline" document on what drives are supported so customers don't end up buying a cheap and slow drive and missing out, and also in order to ensure developers that software installation is a non-issue.

So, bottom line what this means is there is no reason to believe games won't load faster on Wii U's optical drive than they do on X360, and certainly much faster than on PS3 based on the hardware alone. If you take into account further optimization, which you will definitely see in Nintendo games, I believe loading from the optical drive will be noticably faster on Wii U than on X360. The downside is that there will probably be less of a gain to installing games on a HDD in comparison to PS360, but even then, there should be some improvement over streaming from the disc.

Finally, if instead of installing to HDD you decide to go with a large SD card as your internal storage then all this is completely irrelevant since speeds and transfer rates are much higher there anyway. (SDHC goes up to 32 GB, but 64 GB cards have also been seen. The newer standard, SDXC, goes up tp 4 TB).

 



Until you've played it, every game is a system seller!

the original trolls

Wii FC: 4810 9420 3131 7558
MHTri: name=BOo BoO/ID=BZBLEX/region=US

mini-games on consoles, cinematic games on handhelds, what's next? GameBoy IMAX?

Official Member of the Pikmin Fan Club

gumby_trucker said:
Khuutra said:
gumby_trucker said:

Not true. I did the math, I'll post it if anybody's interested.

The bottom line is a non-crap USB 2.0 HDD will have transfer rates at least as good as the optical drive Nintendo is most likely to include.

Lay that sweet math on me, brother

All about some math

 

so the theoretical maximum transfer rate for USB2.0 is 60 MB/s (480 Mb/s) but the actual maximum transfer rate is closer to half that number:
"the full real-life maximum throughput of USB 2.0 is approximately 32 MB/s" according to Tom's Hardware.
For comparison the Xbox 360s optical drive had a transfer rate of half that number at around 15.8 MB/s and the PS3 even less than that. Since by default games are read from the Optical drive, that is the transfer rate we have to beat, and we must do it consistently.

Blu Ray 1x read speed is 36 Mbit/sec but no commercial drive is any slower than 2x because you need at least 54 Mbit/sec to play movies. This means that in order to have an optical drive that is faster than USB 2.0 Nintendo would have to go with an 8x BluRay or better. Having an 8x BluRay drive would seem to be overkill as it would have transfer speeds 2-2.5 times faster than the fastest console this gen, the X360. That leaves us with 4x or 6x drives.

In 2006 Sony went with the cheapest drive possible which is 2x (=72 Mbit/sec) because they needed to keep costs low. As a result they created a severe bottle-neck in data access (even slower than the 360 DVD drive) and this has hampered developers all through the generation. Nintendo would be stupid to repeat this mistake, especially since prices have gone down a lot since 2006. 

For now I am assuming Nintendo will go with the cheaper option, i.e. 4x Bluray which means 144 Mbit/sec for continuous reads. This puts Wii U slightly above the 360, which had a 12x DVD drive at 132 Mbit/sec maximum read speed. Remember that Wii U has WAY more RAM than the PS3 or 360, therefor even if assets are in higher resolution I don't think it justifies going with a faster drive than 4x Bluray. If the system can stream data not only to RAM but also to the onbaord Flash memory than this is even more true.

Now hard drives for the 360 and PS3 were probably faster than this, but still, any decent USB 2.0 drive today manages actual transfer rates of 22-26 MByte/sec = 176-208 Mbit/sec. This is something I can attest to, having recently purchased such a drive and doing the comparisons myself. Therefor as long as the drive doesn't drop below 18 Mbyte/sec (=144 Mbit/sec) during continuous transfers, it shouldn't make a difference to the software in comparison to 4x BluRay as far as data being delivered. Even if Nintendo does decide to go with 6x Bluray (216 Mb/2 or 27 MB/s), many top of the line USB 2.0 drives would still be able to exceed the optical drive's transfer rate.

There are crappy USB 2.0 drives in the market that don't do 18 Mbyte/sec continuous, but as long as customers know to avoid them, we should be fine. Therefor Nintendo would be smart to publish a "consumer guideline" document on what drives are supported so customers don't end up buying a cheap and slow drive and missing out, and also in order to ensure developers that software installation is a non-issue.

So, bottom line what this means is there is no reason to believe games won't load faster on Wii U's optical drive than they do on X360, and certainly much faster than on PS3 based on the hardware alone. If you take into account further optimization, which you will definitely see in Nintendo games, I believe loading from the optical drive will be noticably faster on Wii U than on X360. The downside is that there will probably be less of a gain to installing games on a HDD in comparison to PS360, but even then, there should be some improvement over streaming from the disc.

Finally, if instead of installing to HDD you decide to go with a large SD card as your internal storage then all this is completely irrelevant since speeds and transfer rates are much higher there anyway. (SDHC goes up to 32 GB, but 64 GB cards have also been seen. The newer standard, SDXC, goes up tp 4 TB).

 


you forgot to mention the difference in seek time, optical drives have terrible seek times in general so if multiple assests are being loaded, HDD would be faster anyways. If you are crazy enough to use SSD on USB2, which I don't recommend, it'd be even faster. SD Cards also have faster seek times as well, SDHC Class 10 only does about 10MB+/- per second though, not the most ideal for data streaming heh, but very good seek and burst buffer rates.



Around the Network
pezus said:
richardhutnik said:
Nintendo likely goes this route, first and foremost, for durability reasons. I believe flash memory is more durable than putting a harddrive in there. Hey, maybe I am wrong, but I believe that is the case. It is likely cheaper also.

The hard drive in current gen consoles are durable enough, why would you need more? 


The key things to remember when we are talking about flash drives(and SD cards) are:

1.) Capacity (low vs HDD)

2.) Capacity Cost per Dollar (higher vs HDD)

3.) Actual Data Transfer Speeds (general lower than HDD, usually slow cause companies go el cheapo)

 

There are more advantages ATM to go full fledged good USB HDD than flash drives when we are talking about a console like Wii U if you want a better game play experience.



Good, consoles should never have tried to standardize hard drives in the first place. Less moving parts = better! Also, SD cards are much more convenient anyways.

Now go back to cartridges, so that consoles can last forever and have all of their traditional advantages against PC gaming back again.



I LOVE ICELAND!

blunty51 said:
Wouldn't the transfer rate for usb-attached HDDs be pretty slow?


As gumby_trucker excellently explained it really wouldn't be. It would still be faster than playing from disc on 360/PS3. 



Turkish says and I'm allowed to quote that: Uncharted 3 and God Of War 3 look better than Unreal Engine 4 games will or the tech demo does. Also the Naughty Dog PS3 ENGINE PLAYS better than the UE4 ENGINE.

pezus said:
Zim said:
blunty51 said:
Wouldn't the transfer rate for usb-attached HDDs be pretty slow?


As gumby_trucker excellently explained it really wouldn't be. It would still be faster than playing from disc on 360/PS3. 

But faster than playing from their Hard Drives? Why is digital speed being compared to retail disks here?

Because the point is that playing a game from an external hard drive isn't going to hinder performance anyhow. So the transfer rate is fine. Slow would imply that it is slower than playing from a disc and would be an issue. It isn't. You could install a game to an external hard drive and it would run faster than off disc etc. 

I don't see any issue at all with the Wii U having USB 2.0. It isn't going to cause problems.

Also unless I'm mistaken those naughty people who took apart their 360s found that the 360 Hard Drive had a transfer rate of about 32MB/s. Which would mean a USb 2.0 hard drive would be between disc performance and internal hard drive performance. 



Turkish says and I'm allowed to quote that: Uncharted 3 and God Of War 3 look better than Unreal Engine 4 games will or the tech demo does. Also the Naughty Dog PS3 ENGINE PLAYS better than the UE4 ENGINE.

dahuman said:

you forgot to mention the difference in seek time, optical drives have terrible seek times in general so if multiple assests are being loaded, HDD would be faster anyways. If you are crazy enough to use SSD on USB2, which I don't recommend, it'd be even faster. SD Cards also have faster seek times as well, SDHC Class 10 only does about 10MB+/- per second though, not the most ideal for data streaming heh, but very good seek and burst buffer rates.

My aim was only to address the potential costs of having an external HDD, and none of the benefits, which is why I entirely skipped mentioning seek time and other parameters where optical media is at a disadvantage to begin with.

One issue regarding this which I did not address is that of fragmentation. I don't know how Sony or MS handle this with external hard-drives but they must have some precautions in place, otherwise there is always the risk that eventually seek times will become too high. I'm sure Nintendo is taking such precautions as well.



Until you've played it, every game is a system seller!

the original trolls

Wii FC: 4810 9420 3131 7558
MHTri: name=BOo BoO/ID=BZBLEX/region=US

mini-games on consoles, cinematic games on handhelds, what's next? GameBoy IMAX?

Official Member of the Pikmin Fan Club