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Forums - Sports - The Euro 2012 thread

okr said:
Barozi said:
okr said:

 

Wh0t Schürrle plays for Leverkusen.
I always confuse Schürrle's current team with the current one of the other guy who left Mainz 05, Lewis Holtby. I forgive myself as Leverkusen and Schalke are pretty much the same to me anyway: clubs which never win the championship no matter how hard they try.

Besides I wouldn't trust most of the Dortmund players either.
Of course you wouldn't. It's an unwritten German football law to downplay players who are not from Bayern. It's in the media. it's in the football fans. No wonder, as 95% of football experts on German TV are former Bayern players/coaches/presidents (Beckenbauer, Hitzfeld, Effenberg, Kahn, Scholl).

And yet you gave me no reason why Löw should trust them.
Hummels got 15 caps and only his most recent appearance deserved praise. Schmelzer has 6 caps and he hasn't convinced anybody either (though there is still a chance). Götze has also about 15 caps and while he showed some more impressive stuff than Hummels, he could in no way challenge Özil's place or even Müller's who is totally out of form.
Hummels is also the only one who will definitely stay in their starting 11, but mostly because Mertesacker had so many disastrous performances over the past 2 years.

And don't get me wrong. Müller and Lahm were horrible yesterday.



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i don't agree with you kowen,its not poor its tournament football,personally i enjoy it as are most of the peopel in poland and ukraine i'd imagine

my pundits think germany v portugal was poor but for me it was two proper football teams,i liked it,portugal are a good team lesta you must be pleased but they went for the tatcics of only stepping it up when they went behind but you are playing the germans first so going for the point is fair enough,my team england will no doubt do the same against the french with hodgson but i hope not,it seems to me portugal didn't believe in nani and ronaldo enough but i like portugal the have some real old warhorses and some real quality players,big game against the dutch now



                                                                                                                                        Above & Beyond

   

Barozi said:

And yet you gave me no reason why Löw should trust them.
Why should I try to convince you if you don't want to be convinced. You clearly showed you have your prefab opinion on Dortmund players in the national team and you won't change it anyway. Perfect example:
Götze...could in no way challenge...or even Müller's who is totally out of form.
You must be kidding, just like you must have been kidding when you claimed that the German team was the unlucky one yesterday (lestatdark already took care of that; I completely agree with him). Götze or Schürrle or Reus could easily replace Müller in his current shape.
...And don't get me wrong.
Müller and Lahm were horrible yesterday.
Müller was horrible yesterday as he's been horrible most of the season. Fact: Müller (and Lukas "der Bolzer" Podolski btw) should currently not be in this team.



no ones defence looks all that solid so far though,i think portugal deserved a goal last night and had good chances

spain v italy later,good stuff



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zuvuyeay said:
i don't agree with you kowen,its not poor its tournament football,personally i enjoy it as are most of the peopel in poland and ukraine i'd imagine

my pundits think germany v portugal was poor but for me it was two proper football teams,i liked it,portugal are a good team lesta you must be pleased but they went for the tatcics of only stepping it up when they went behind but you are playing the germans first so going for the point is fair enough,my team england will no doubt do the same against the french with hodgson but i hope not,it seems to me portugal didn't believe in nani and ronaldo enough but i like portugal the have some real old warhorses and some real quality players,big game against the dutch now

Oh I agree, it was a shame that we didn't have the same posture on the first half as we did after we were down, we gave too much respect to the german side and we paid for it. Still, i'm proud of my guys as we showed we could play against them as equals and I hope they show the same guts in the next two games. 

Group B is going to be an interesting one in terms of who's going on towards the quarter finals alongside Germany, especially if Portugal manages to win against Denmark (which is not gonna be easy, as they shown against Holland already) and Holland manages to score a point against Germany. 

Our biggest problem lies in the fact that we trully lack a proper striker, someone to actually finalize our plays. Our last good one, Pauleta, left us in 2006 and since then that position has been left with a massive void (both Postiga and Almeida are piss poor at best and Oliveira, while he does have a promising future, he's still too young, only 20), that's why our attacking expenses are always left to Ronaldo and Nani, because we literally have no other choice. Imo, Portugal as it is now, doesn't benefit that much from a 4x3x3 approach, but rather a 4x4x2 in which those two can freely move between the finishing area and the midfield. 



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lestatdark said:
Barozi said:

Wh0t Schürrle plays for Leverkusen.

Besides I wouldn't trust most of the Dortmund players either. There's simply not much reason for it. They play great for Dortmund, but mostly suck in the national team. This was Hummels best game by far, because usually he is the reason why Germany can't win with a clean sheet. Schmelzer plays equally bad
and Goetze had maybe two great games... out of 15.

And you know how those friendlies turn out when Löw experiments too much...


As for the game Germany was the unlucky one, not Portugal. Gomez scored a perfect goal, but the referee called a foul like 2 seconds before Gomez takes the shot. Ever heard of the advantage rule ?
Then the referee also denied us a clear red card. Fist into the face of Badstuber and no one can tell that this was an unintentional move. Not a very hard punch, but still easily enough for a red card.

Overall well deserved victory and at the same time still lots of room for improvements. Portugal only tried to score a goal after they were in behind starting in the ~80th minute. Before that they didn't have more chances than Germany.

Gomez only scored that because everyone just stopped playing after the referee signalled the fault, not only the portuguese players but also the rest of the german players, it was only Gomez who continued. That can hardly be called a "perfect goal", especially since it happened over 10 seconds after the referee signalled the fault, though I agree that he should have given the advantage rule given that the possession continued on Germany's side. 

As for that so called red card, that was an invonlutary move by Meireles, in which he immediatly addresses both the line referee and the german player because he saw what he did. That's hardly a case for a red card, otherwise, how many red cards would have Van Persie gotten on the previous game since he did at least three times against danish player.  

And Portugal only tried to score a goal after being behind? Who had the best chance in the first half? Was it not Portugal's with Pepe's shot against the crossbar? And starting the second half, we had 4 strikes in the first 15 minutes of the second half. If anything, Germany had much less chances on the second half than Portugal. 

Germany was more effective than Portugal, that I give you, but to say that Germany was more unlucky than Portugal, that's a downright lie. Two shots against the crossbar, one miraculous defense by Neuer when Varela was in front of him, a massive defense by Boateng which also left him down for a while against Ronaldo's chance. 

http://www.footytube.com/video/germany-portugal-jun09-120839?ref=hp_ozeit_mp

watch at 1:30
it's 2 seconds and the defenders even tried to stop Gomez albeit with not as much effort. Though I doubt that anyone had blocked his shot or that the goalie had saved that pretty well placed shot.

Therefore Portugal only had the second best chance in the first half.
Involuntary move my ass. He deserved to be banned from the UEFA afterwards. A shame you try to defend him. Makes me sick. (you not so much but the player)

No good videos for that yet but here some opinions from a live ticker:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/gamecast?id=334183&ref=espnfc&cc=5739
"That was naughty. Meireles and Badstuber were tussling for the ball in the corner when Meireles appears to have hit the German player in the face. Looks fairly deliberate on replays. Lucky man."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9316039/Germany-v-Portugal-live.html
"Meireles and Badstuber tustle and the Portugal man is lucky that the ref didn't see that he slapped his German rival in the face. "

The second "shot" a the crossbar was not a goal opportunity. Just a failed cross attempt that fell on the crossbar. Chances were even til the 80th minute, then Portugal was forced to change something. Any other opportunities were poor anyway, so quantity doesn't matter much.



lestatdark said:
zuvuyeay said:
i don't agree with you kowen,its not poor its tournament football,personally i enjoy it as are most of the peopel in poland and ukraine i'd imagine

my pundits think germany v portugal was poor but for me it was two proper football teams,i liked it,portugal are a good team lesta you must be pleased but they went for the tatcics of only stepping it up when they went behind but you are playing the germans first so going for the point is fair enough,my team england will no doubt do the same against the french with hodgson but i hope not,it seems to me portugal didn't believe in nani and ronaldo enough but i like portugal the have some real old warhorses and some real quality players,big game against the dutch now

Oh I agree, it was a shame that we didn't have the same posture on the first half as we did after we were down, we gave too much respect to the german side and we paid for it. Still, i'm proud of my guys as we showed we could play against them as equals and I hope they show the same guts in the next two games. 

Group B is going to be an interesting one in terms of who's going on towards the quarter finals alongside Germany, especially if Portugal manages to win against Denmark (which is not gonna be easy, as they shown against Holland already) and Holland manages to score a point against Germany. 

Our biggest problem lies in the fact that we trully lack a proper striker, someone to actually finalize our plays. Our last good one, Pauleta, left us in 2006 and since then that position has been left with a massive void (both Postiga and Almeida are piss poor at best and Oliveira, while he does have a promising future, he's still too young, only 20), that's why our attacking expenses are always left to Ronaldo and Nani, because we literally have no other choice. Imo, Portugal as it is now, doesn't benefit that much from a 4x3x3 approach, but rather a 4x4x2 in which those two can freely move between the finishing area and the midfield. 


i'd say you should beat the danes,by the looks of the dutch you might beat them too,their defence looks a bit shabby

i was going to say i think ronaldo should play upfront in the middle,surely you must have another decent enough wideman to play out there,seems liek a waste for ronaldo because he doesn't see enough of the ball,its not club football,ronnie has to get involved more for portugal



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okr said:
Barozi said:

And yet you gave me no reason why Löw should trust them.
Why should I try to convince you if you don't want to be convinced. You clearly showed you have your prefab opinion on Dortmund players in the national team and you won't change it anyway. Perfect example:
Götze...could in no way challenge...or even Müller's who is totally out of form.
You must be kidding, just like you must have been kidding when you claimed that the German team was the unlucky one yesterday (lestatdark already took care of that; I completely agree with him). Götze or Schürrle or Reus could easily replace Müller in his current shape.
...And don't get me wrong.
Müller and Lahm were horrible yesterday.
Müller was horrible yesterday as he's been horrible most of the season. Fact: Müller (and Lukas "der Bolzer" Podolski btw) should currently not be in this team.

Poldi had a pretty good first half, so I disagree there. Schürrle has been shit for the most part of the season, but he stepped his game up towards the end and he has a pretty good record in the national team. So that would've been a viable substitution for the second half.

Now Müller, while he's pretty crappy as of late is always good for a decent performance once in a while. Should Löw give Reus and Götze a chance ? Yes sure. Should he take Müller out of his starting 11 for one of them ? No definitely not.
It's not my or Löw's fault that the Dortmund players don't show what they're capable of. They've proven it in the Bundesliga, but they totally failed to show anything in the Champions League or Europa League and they showed next to nothing in our national team either.



Really looking forward to today, though I wouldn't expect too much excitement were I a neutral. Hoping for a big win for Spain in the hope that we can hold them to a draw or, more likely, a narrow defeat and maybe squeak through on goal difference with four points. Unlikely I know, but a man can dream



After Hummels' performance yesterday you still say they dont' show what they're capable of and that they showed next to nothing. Okay, let's stop it here. As usual with football discussions, this leads nowhere.