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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Has BioWare Devalued the Video Game?

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maverick40 on 30 May 2012
Troll_Whisperer said:
SeductiveReasoning said:
kowenicki said:

Nicely written. 

Actually, I think it's pretty badly written.

There are a lot of words just taking up space, the author's point is almost entirely unsupported, and the title is very misleading.

The writing level is very high school-esqe.  The author is in that awkward phase where he's just discovered relative clauses but doesn't know how to use them properly or with moderation.  This level of comma abuse would make an English teacher cry:

maverick40 said:

It can be a well, or poorly, executed process, there are, after all, good and bad games.

I wish schools would provide more writing courses to students.  In an era where anyone can write something and post it for others to read, good writing skills have never been more necessary.

Indeed, one of the most important rules of journalism is using as few commas as possible. Without changing a word in that sentence, it could improve with better use of commas and full stops.

It can be a well or poorly executed process. There are after all good and bad games.

Cheers for the feedback man, much appreciated!



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Jay520 on 30 May 2012
maverick40 said:
Jay520 said:
I only skimmed through the article (it had a shit ton of filler), but it looks like he's trying to say that video games where you can create your own story are not art because you're not realizing the creator's artistic vision.

1.) When was it universally agreed that video games are art?
2.) The creator of the experience is irrelevant. All that matters is the player gets a powerful experience.


You should probably read the whole article.

1.) It was never universally agreed that games are art, the bioware cofounder Dr. Muzyka’s  believes that games are an art form thus contradicting himself.

2.) What? So in this case in order for a player to get a powerful experience, he/she deserves to get the ending of a game changed??



They don't HAVE to get the game'e ending changed, but if it still evokes a powerful emotion, then it's still art. No one deserves anything but a powerful experience. This isn't necessarily changed with a changed ending.

maverick40 on 30 May 2012
Jay520 said:
maverick40 said:
Jay520 said:
I only skimmed through the article (it had a shit ton of filler), but it looks like he's trying to say that video games where you can create your own story are not art because you're not realizing the creator's artistic vision.

1.) When was it universally agreed that video games are art?
2.) The creator of the experience is irrelevant. All that matters is the player gets a powerful experience.


You should probably read the whole article.

1.) It was never universally agreed that games are art, the bioware cofounder Dr. Muzyka’s  believes that games are an art form thus contradicting himself.

2.) What? So in this case in order for a player to get a powerful experience, he/she deserves to get the ending of a game changed??


They don't HAVE to get the game'e ending changed, but if it still evokes a powerful emotion, then it's still art.

Exactly Bioware didn't have to change the ending of THEIR own work but, because of a bunch of angry keyboard warriors who didn't like the ending Bioware bent over and decided to change it. Instead what they should have said was: This is the game, if you don't like it then don't buy it.

Thankfully though, the game is universally aclaimed by professional in the games industry.



Jay520 on 30 May 2012
maverick40 said:
Jay520 said:
maverick40 said:
Jay520 said:
I only skimmed through the article (it had a shit ton of filler), but it looks like he's trying to say that video games where you can create your own story are not art because you're not realizing the creator's artistic vision.

1.) When was it universally agreed that video games are art?
2.) The creator of the experience is irrelevant. All that matters is the player gets a powerful experience.


You should probably read the whole article.

1.) It was never universally agreed that games are art, the bioware cofounder Dr. Muzyka’s  believes that games are an art form thus contradicting himself.

2.) What? So in this case in order for a player to get a powerful experience, he/she deserves to get the ending of a game changed??


They don't HAVE to get the game'e ending changed, but if it still evokes a powerful emotion, then it's still art.

Exactly Bioware didn't have to change the ending of THEIR own work but, because of a bunch of angry keyboard warriors who didn't like the ending Bioware bent over and decided to change it. Instead what they should have said was: This is the game, if you don't like it then don't buy it.

Thankfully though, the game is universally aclaimed by professional in the games industry.



I never said Bioware didn't 'bend over'. (Though I don't see how it's 'bending over' to try to please your dissatisfied consumers while not harming the others, but whatever). I'm just saying that you can't say that this alternate ending isn't art. If the player feels powerful emotion/experience, then it's art. It being an alternative ending doesn't change that.

maverick40 on 30 May 2012
kowenicki said:
maverick40 said:
kowenicki said:
SeductiveReasoning said:
kowenicki said:

Nicely written. 

Actually, I think it's pretty badly written.

There are a lot of words just taking up space, the author's point is almost entirely unsupported, and the title is very misleading.

The writing level is very high school-esqe.  The author is in that awkward phase where he's just discovered relative clauses but doesn't know how to use them properly or with moderation.  This level of comma abuse would make an English teacher cry:

maverick40 said:

It can be a well, or poorly, executed process, there are, after all, good and bad games.

I wish schools would provide more writing courses to students.  In an era where anyone can write something and post it for others to read, good writing skills have never been more necessary.

I wasn't referring to the grammar, more the thrust of the article.  He made his point fairly clear imo... although I don't particularly agree with it.

Agree or Disagree to your hearts content it is an opinion article after all but, the grammer is perfectly fine and most definitley not high school-esque.

I was defending you....

Fuck wrong person, sorry kowen. That was for SeductiveReasoning!



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thranx on 30 May 2012

Didn't read the whole thing. Mainly because games are still games first, and they can't be devalued because they lost some of their artistic integrity. Its all about gameplay first, fans second, and than maybe art. I would even put profit before art as i want gaming to continue and with out profit it won't.



mike_intellivision on 30 May 2012

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088930/

The movie Clue had multiple endings -- as it was based upon a game.
Meanwhie, many games have different endings based upon actions taken (i.e., Chrono Trigger).

However, changing an ending just because some people don't like it seems more like bowing to peer pressure than sticking to what you believe.

And that is probably the greatest fear/folly here that people will start producing things only to meet the desires of the "fans." Since they are never challenged, they will not grow.

Related, works done which make it difficult for people to enter often become increasing insular. In other words, they are not open to newcomers. And in those cases, they slowly die as people lose interest and are not replaced by others since the cost of entry into the series (be it any entertainment medium -- games, movies, TV shows) is too high.

Mike from Morgantown





      


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I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

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Zim on 30 May 2012

Urggg dreadful article that has basically been written a million times before. Same old variation of Bioware is right, gamers are whiners.

Seriously changing the ending devalued artistic integrity? So all movies that have test screenings have no artistic integrity? Or how about the fact that the Mass Effect series has vital information to the plot sold separately, features in game prompts to buy separate material, features an in game store etc etc. None of this is raised in your article because........ Oh right you are trying to get into an industry that must only say nice things about the companies.

Your point about music and the internet I don't even understand. As it seems to directly contradict everything that the internet did for music. Where it became far easier to discover non-mainstream bands, for things to spread etc.

In fact your example of how it would never happen in other industries is Titanic.... a movie where scenes were cut after test screenings. Did you bother to research that? Someone also mentioned Blade Runner. This was considered art for years, long before we actually got the intended version that hadn't been changed due to audience reaction, studio reaction etc

I think this quote from you says everything needed
''Exactly Bioware didn't have to change the ending of THEIR own work but, because of a bunch of angry keyboard warriors who didn't like the ending Bioware bent over and decided to change it. Instead what they should have said was: This is the game, if you don't like it then don't buy it.
Thankfully though, the game is universally aclaimed by professional in the games industry.''
So gamers = angry keyboard warriors. Bioware = Universally acclaimed creators.
You may as well just admit you don't care about journalism and simply want to get paid to write about games.



Turkish says and I'm allowed to quote that: Uncharted 3 and God Of War 3 look better than Unreal Engine 4 games will or the tech demo does. Also the Naughty Dog PS3 ENGINE PLAYS better than the UE4 ENGINE.

AllfatherStarr on 30 May 2012

I would have agreed with the article if I believed that the ending was the result of an artistic decision. Provided how the first two parts have very tightly written stories, and the sheer inconsistency of the third(its hard to imagine that the ending was something the writers of the game were themselves entirely satisfied with), the ending, for me, was merely a case of writers unable to figure out how to end something they started. It happened to the Matrix, it happened to Eragon. Bioware are just lucky that they have the means to make amends, which can effectively reach the entirety of their original audience.



Troll_Whisperer on 30 May 2012
maverick40 said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
SeductiveReasoning said:
kowenicki said:

Nicely written. 

Actually, I think it's pretty badly written.

There are a lot of words just taking up space, the author's point is almost entirely unsupported, and the title is very misleading.

The writing level is very high school-esqe.  The author is in that awkward phase where he's just discovered relative clauses but doesn't know how to use them properly or with moderation.  This level of comma abuse would make an English teacher cry:

maverick40 said:

It can be a well, or poorly, executed process, there are, after all, good and bad games.

I wish schools would provide more writing courses to students.  In an era where anyone can write something and post it for others to read, good writing skills have never been more necessary.

Indeed, one of the most important rules of journalism is using as few commas as possible. Without changing a word in that sentence, it could improve with better use of commas and full stops.

It can be a well or poorly executed process. There are after all good and bad games.

Cheers for the feedback man, much appreciated!

No problem!



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.