And the same applies to Mario Kart 7, so what's he trying to say? idk

Where is Mario Kart DS on that list?

What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about the power of a gen 7 game versus that of  a gen 8 game. The abstract logic revolving around those two concepts applies to both 3D Mario and Mario Kart 7.

Read this again, and you should see why it applies:

"The question is, if a DS games can challenge a 3DS Mario Kart game, does that mean the mario kart series is weak?

If you answer no, then that reasoning also applies to 3D Mario."

about the 2d mario vs 3d mario:
Could you Rol please compare SM64DS with NSMB instead of comparing it with a game on a console with 10 times less users, thank you.

No, we're not. We're talking about whether one flavor of a game series performs better than a different flavor of the same game series. Comparing games from two different genres that have only the word "Mario" in common gives us zero useful data. At the moment, the 2D handheld "flavor" happens to be from '06, while the 3D handheld "flavor" is from 2011. In spite of that time disparity, the former performed quite close to the latter in 2012.

Put alternatively, this is about 2D Mario vs. 3D Mario, not 7th generation v. 8th generation.

Again, "he can't compare NSMB sales with SM64 DS sales with that chart."

Can you see why?

Further question, and this one's super important: did you read what that chart is about?

Okay, I really thought you were smarter than this.

Can you answer my question squarely please... 

If NSMB DS can challenge Mario Kart 7, what does that say about the Mario Kart series, is it weak?

(This is a yes or no answer, and the question is on topic, you'll see why shortly)

Just...get to your point.

You didn't understand my point, I said it earlier. Again...

If you answer yes to the question (is MK a weak series), then I don't know what to tell you, the chartz say otherwise.

If you answer no to the question (is MK a weak series), then that invalidates Rol's argument. He'd have to find another better one to discredit the brand strength of 3D Mario (there are many better ones).

I didn't want to make a fuss about it, I thought it was straightforward. I'm not here to discredit anyone's posts, I was just looking to better direct my opposing debater.

If we're to debate, let's help each other find valid arguments to work with, and discard the weaker ones.

It's just, I can't understand Nintendo being so boneheaded. Surely they've done research on it. They have at least two or three brilliant minds over there, 1 more if you include Reggie, and they can't figure something like that out?

How can they be so right with the wii and absolutely nailing the audience, and then completely miss out something so simple? Is it simple bias that prevents them from doing so? And if that's true, then why be planning to make another 2d zelda? Why go "nearly" completely 2d with metroid?