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Forums - General - CEOs make 380x as much as the average worker?

SamuelRSmith said:
NJ5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:

What does it matter whether or not I think they deserve the money? It's not my money, I don't have a claim to it, and so I cannot rightfully tell a business where to spend it - and that counts if I am just a regular citizen, or a member of Government.

It matters as much as any other opinion that you may have. IMO it's quite normal for people to discuss these things, especially since many of us actually work at companies which have CEOs.

These types of discussions tend to follow onto that something must be done to cap the upper-limit on wages, which angers me, because people really don't believe in property rights, anymore. Hence my flippant comment.

We need to define just what these rights are. Is the ability to endlessly exploit people a right? Is the ability to jump out of a failing company with a multi-million dollar bonus a right?

Like all rights, property rights should only extend to sensible boundaries.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
NJ5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:

What does it matter whether or not I think they deserve the money? It's not my money, I don't have a claim to it, and so I cannot rightfully tell a business where to spend it - and that counts if I am just a regular citizen, or a member of Government.

It matters as much as any other opinion that you may have. IMO it's quite normal for people to discuss these things, especially since many of us actually work at companies which have CEOs.

These types of discussions tend to follow onto that something must be done to cap the upper-limit on wages, which angers me, because people really don't believe in property rights, anymore. Hence my flippant comment.

We need to define just what these rights are. Is the ability to endlessly exploit people a right? Is the ability to jump out of a failing company with a multi-million dollar bonus a right?

Like all rights, property rights should only extend to sensible boundaries.

Neither of those are rights.



SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:

These types of discussions tend to follow onto that something must be done to cap the upper-limit on wages, which angers me, because people really don't believe in property rights, anymore. Hence my flippant comment.

We need to define just what these rights are. Is the ability to endlessly exploit people a right? Is the ability to jump out of a failing company with a multi-million dollar bonus a right?

Like all rights, property rights should only extend to sensible boundaries.

Neither of those are rights.

Exactly, but depending on how you interpret "property rights," suddenly they become rights.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
 

These types of discussions tend to follow onto that something must be done to cap the upper-limit on wages, which angers me, because people really don't believe in property rights, anymore. Hence my flippant comment.

We need to define just what these rights are. Is the ability to endlessly exploit people a right? Is the ability to jump out of a failing company with a multi-million dollar bonus a right?

Like all rights, property rights should only extend to sensible boundaries.

Neither of those are rights.

Exactly, but depending on how you interpret "property rights," suddenly they become rights.

Well, not really. Unless you count people as property... which no respectable modern person does.

As for leaving a failing company with a multi-million dollar bonus, that can only count under property rights if you own the business, or the owners of the business agree. Which may be "unethical" to some, but, interfering sets a bad precedent, and infringes on property rights.



As for the ongoing public/private health discussion. Tomorrow's front page of the telegraph:

Long live the NHS!



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SamuelRSmith said:

As for the ongoing public/private health discussion. Tomorrow's front page of the telegraph:

Long live the NHS!

So, you are arguing that in a privatized system such errors don't happen?  If they don't happen, then why is there a push on the GOP side for "Tort reform" so that fines paid for medical malpractice in courts is limited. 

One can then go and show clips from Sicko, for example, as a counterpoint:



richardhutnik said:
SamuelRSmith said:

As for the ongoing public/private health discussion. Tomorrow's front page of the telegraph:

 

Long live the NHS!

So, you are arguing that in a privatized system such errors don't happen?  If they don't happen, then why is there a push on the GOP side for "Tort reform" so that fines paid for medical malpractice in courts is limited. 

One can then go and show clips from Sicko, for example, as a counterpoint:


I never said that. But 1 in 5 people being prescribed potentially lethal drugs, on my money? A company that had such a poor rate would be shut down by either the markets, or some regulator... when the NHS does it, it'll be the front page of the newspaper for one day... and nothing else will come from it.

I've personally been wrongly diagnosed by the NHS, twice. It's only when I later went to a private hospital that I found out. One of my cousins was wrongfully diagnosed to have a certain condition, as a baby, the medications he was given as a result did not help. He spent two years on the wrong medication, and his health detoriated rapidly. After the hospital realised their mistake, they switched medication. But it was too late, his lifespan had dropped significantly. He died when he was 16. My granddad, when in hospital with a bowel condition was left in dirty bedding (as in, after he soiled himself) for hours. It was only when my mum started kicking off that the hospital did anything about it.

Private companies are by no means perfect, but if my family members had the choice of private hospitals, my cousin may be alive now, and my granddad might have been able to keep his dignity in a hospital bed.

I'd just like to point out that my local NHS services are also rated particularly highly. Other parts of the country are deemed much worse.

Also, I don't care about that Sicko documentary. He painted the NHS to be a pinnacle of healthcare, it isn't. He also wrongly calls the American system capitalistic, it isn't.



mrstickball said:
bouzane said:
SamuelRSmith said:
bouzane said:
You will never convince me that Capitalism works, never.


I suppose all those videogames you play were the result of some bureacrat barking orders.

 

What kind of rebutal is that? That's a terrible guage for quality of life. I live in an area that has decaying infrastructure, lousy education and non-existant health care while I can drive a couple blocks and look at all the millionaires' homes. This system is inherintly flawed, like all systems sadly.

Compared to......Where?

You live in Canada. One of the most capitalistic nations in the world. Would you rather live in a very non-capitalist nation like China, North Korea or so on? On average, the Canadian system is one of the best in the world. If you think it is bad where you're at, I highly suggest you visit elsewhere to see what non-capitalism brings you.


I've never been to North Korea, but I think its situation has more to do with the fact that it has military enforced trade sanctions against it, and is generally treated as an enemy by most of the rest of the world. I have, however, been to China multiple times - and it is actually more capitalist than most places here in Europe - it is also very cheap, DVDs (for example) cost less than 1 USD.

You are also taking examples of poor countries, that is like saying "if you like capitalism so much, why not move to a country where Laissez Faire capitalism reigns like Sierra Leone."

Communism has only arrived in poor countries, and the truth is that those countries generally became better off economically under communism. Look at Russia for example, it emerged from the icy diseased dirt as a world super-power. It is only in such countries that communism arises, because it is only in such countries where people become desparate enough to rebel.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
mrstickball said:
bouzane said:
SamuelRSmith said:
bouzane said:
You will never convince me that Capitalism works, never.


I suppose all those videogames you play were the result of some bureacrat barking orders.

 

What kind of rebutal is that? That's a terrible guage for quality of life. I live in an area that has decaying infrastructure, lousy education and non-existant health care while I can drive a couple blocks and look at all the millionaires' homes. This system is inherintly flawed, like all systems sadly.

Compared to......Where?

You live in Canada. One of the most capitalistic nations in the world. Would you rather live in a very non-capitalist nation like China, North Korea or so on? On average, the Canadian system is one of the best in the world. If you think it is bad where you're at, I highly suggest you visit elsewhere to see what non-capitalism brings you.


I've never been to North Korea, but I think its situation has more to do with the fact that it has military enforced trade sanctions against it, and is generally treated as an enemy by most of the rest of the world. I have, however, been to China multiple times - and it is actually more capitalist than most places here in Europe - it is also very cheap, DVDs (for example) cost less than 1 USD.

You are also taking examples of poor countries, that is like saying "if you like capitalism so much, why not move to a country where Laissez Faire capitalism reigns like Sierra Leone."

Communism has only arrived in poor countries, and the truth is that those countries generally became better off economically under communism. Look at Russia for example, it emerged from the icy diseased dirt as a world super-power. It is only in such countries that communism arises, because it is only in such countries where people become desparate enough to rebel.

Thing is, Lassiez-Faire capitalism doesn't regin in most of these horrific, back-water countries. If you look at virtually every economic index of freedom for countries, none of these supposed paragons of economic freedom (which are dirt poor) are ever ranked.

For example:

Heritage Index:

  1. Hong Kong
  2. Singapore
  3. Australia
  4. New Zealand
  5. Switzerland
  6. Canada
  7. Chile
  8. Mauritius
  9. Ireland
  10. US

...#152 Sierra Leone

 

CATO EFW / Frazier Institute:

  1. Hong Kong
  2. Singapore
  3. New Zealand
  4. Switzerland
  5. Australia
  6. Canada
  7. Chile
  8. United Kingdom
  9. Mauritius
  10. United States

...#126 - Sierra Leone

I can keep pulling up data, but as you can see - countries viewed as economically free by multiple data points (e.g. rule of law, lack of governmental corruption, cost of doing business, ect) generally correlates to the bigger and more successful economies.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

HappySqurriel said:


What you don't seem to be getting is that your family is suffering in a government run health care system. This is not a problem with capitalism. All of the best medical systems in the world for quality and availability are two tier systems; and Canada is not even close to being one of the best systems in the world because it is a single tier universal health care system.


Okay then let us talk about USA healthcare system since it is still "private".  I can't even afford to go to the doctors if I get sick or injured.  Oh and I don't even have a doctor considering I haven't been to one in years.  Also, the healthcare plans that my contract company offers are a joke.  Why would I pay 35+ a week coming out of my paycheck for such a shitty plan?

I have dental and vision plans under my employer due to seeing actual savings with those plans.  Dental cost about 7 a week for me while vision is around 1 dollar a week.  These plans offer decent benefits.  However, going to their health plans the deductibles are high, the coverage is weak, etc..  I see no value in holding one of those health plans considering it would probably be less money if I just paid out of pocket if I really needed medical help then paying 35+ a week for a terrible health plan.