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Forums - Politics - Jesus vs Mohammed?

 

Jesus vs Mohammed?

Jesus 136 39.19%
 
Mohammed 158 45.53%
 
Equal 53 15.27%
 
Total:347

My vote goes to any decent human being of today that doesn't live by the moral code of some 1400-2000 year old men.



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You have a point, but some ideas just because they are old does not mean they no longer applicable.

 

The idea of the good samartain or the do not harm principle come from religion and are a big part of our morals today.

 

Yes many ideas from religion clash with our current values, but that does not mean all of the ideas are useless.



lordmandeep said:

Your points sort of go along with the free pass Jesus gets with his more objectionable views.

He was a man of his time and did good in it.

 

 

Whatever the cultural norm was,  I think many find the child marriage objectionable as Mohammed was quite old and the fact that such marriages are between two young people in Western Culture.

Many people find the child marriage "questionable" because they don't know anything about it and it's intentions. This marriage was actually more benefitial for Aisha because she went from a regular girl to practically a Queen for the rest of her life. If people actually knew what the marriage was for and its intentions, they would stop using it as a constant attack on Islam.



Andrespetmonkey said:
My vote goes to any decent human being of today that doesn't live by the moral code of some 1400-2000 year old men.

If you read the Quran or the Bible, you will learn that the "moral code" hasn't changed at all since then. In fact, most people are much worse now compared to those who followed the religions at that time. The only main issue I see is with the rights of homosexuals, which I agree that both religions frown against.



As I said the idea of marrying a really young girl to a much older man is in many cultures for thousands of year to be wrong or was something that was not done.

Going back to Roman times and such there were such marriages but the female was usually of an older age like 13-15+.
Also the youngest marriages were mostly with people of the same age.



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Cirio said:
lordmandeep said:

Many people find the child marriage "questionable" because they don't know anything about it and it's intentions. This marriage was actually more benefitial for Aisha because she went from a regular girl to practically a Queen for the rest of her life. If people actually knew what the marriage was for and its intentions, they would stop using it as a constant attack on Islam.


How do you know that she wanted to be married with a much older man? How do you know that she ended up happy? And if she didn't: Do you really think that they'd even consider to write about it in that Koran? And do you think that she'd dare to say "no" to this marriage?

 

Stop blaming the time difference. Some things never change. She could've been a slave as far as we know.



Cirio said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
My vote goes to any decent human being of today that doesn't live by the moral code of some 1400-2000 year old men.

If you read the Quran or the Bible, you will learn that the "moral code" hasn't changed at all since then. In fact, most people are much worse now compared to those who followed the religions at that time. The only main issue I see is with the rights of homosexuals, which I agree that both religions frown against.

"most people are much worse now compared to those who followed the religions at that time"

Wow. 



lordmandeep said:

"What do you mean by fake?"

Many say he never existed at all. It was a big myth or a hoax to fool people.


However the historical evidence clearly shows some sort of prophet or person believing to be a prophet existed during that time.

From what i know, most historians, scholars etc. general accept Jesus as a man who lived during that time period.

The exact events and stories that are documented in the bible surrounding Jesus's life is obviously much more questionable.

Personally i've only come across one person in my life, who absolutely did not believe that Jesus existed.



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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
bugme5 said:

Once and for all, regarding the "married to 9 years old girl"

1) Mahatma Ghandi married a 14 years old ,,, more recently
2) in desert humans become adults earlier...
3) 1500 years ago the average age was 40 or something. 9/40 vs 20/80 of today.

in short you can't judge without knowing the circumstances.

also for Muslims both Jesus and Muhammad are respected prophets, and among the group of distinguished ones.




1) Yes, they got married at 14, but that marriage was arranged way before that. (poor girl?)

2) Wtf.

3) That doesn't matter, and you're still factually wrong. At 1500 people went through puberty later than they do nowadays due to lack of nutrition.

 

How anyone can defend this religion is beyond me.

Mohammad was celebate until he got married to Khadija who was older than him. He remained monogamous until Khadija died. After she died all sorts of disciples and allied tribes offered daughters in marriage. Can you imagine, in a culture where multitudes of wives is an accepted norm, someone of Mohammad's status turning down a marriage offer? the sort of Embarassment that would cause the girl's father. And no doubt, again, due to the culture of the time that loss of face would be blamed on the girl not being good enough so she would have suffered.

Did you know that Islam was the first religion to limit the number of wives a man can have? In Judaism there was no limit on number of wives, and Jesus made no modifications to this aspect of Jewish law. That's why the Mormon's for instance started out allowing polygamy, they only repudiated it when they realised it was out of step with modern thinking and it limited the ability for them to have broader influence. And of course none of those religions established a minimum age for marriage. The first religious book to establish a minimum age for marriage was Baha'i which set the age at 15, for boys and girls. Indeed in many western countries as recently as the 1930s there were no laws about minimum age of marriage.

So marrying a 9 year old girl in the historical and cultural context of the time is a total non-issue.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

The reason why there is doubt over Jesus existence is the lack of first hand real historical evidence.

The Romans recorded everything but the death of Jesus was not a big deal for them. It was simply a move to keep the Jews from rioting. That explains the lack of evidence from Roman historians.