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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Mass Effect Thread: Leviathan is out, buy it, it's great

Scoobes said:
Darc Requiem said:

4. People were pissed off at the plot holes. ME2's Arrival DLC established that an exploding Mass Relay has the force of Super Nova. No matter what ending you choose all the relays are destroyed. Which means nearly all life in the ME Galaxy should have been wiped out. The Normandy was with the combined Galactic Fleet above Earth and suddenly it's at FTL out running some explosion. One of, or in some cases both, squadmates you take into the final battle on Earth exit the Normandy's hatch after it crashes. That's not even possible. The Illusive Man controlling Shepard and Anderson was plot hole. Indoctrination has never worked that way throughout the entire series. The reason the Catalyst gave for creating the Reapers made no sense. To stop synthetics from wiping out organics, the Catalyst creates a fleet of synthetics that wipe out organics. The ending literally made no sense. It reminds me of the Mass Effect Deception debacle.

Not sure if we're still doing spoiler tags so I covered part of my post.

Just a comment on a few of the plot holes you mentioned:

1. Supernova's (whilst huge) aren't that big and there aren't that many mass relays. There would be plenty of life left after the destruction of all the mass relays.

2. The Normandy suddenly appearing in FTL with members of the crew (including those that were down on Earth) points to a gap in time that I think will probably be filled with the DLC. As it stands, it seems pretty random, although I'd guess it was trying to outrun a mass relay explosion... but yeah...

3. The reasoning the Catalyst gave was to prevent further chaos a complete and all out war would bring. My understanding was that in a 50,000 year cycle organics become too advanced and will lead to a completely chaotic situation whereby organics and synthetics battle continously for millenia. This is heavily hinted towards by the Geth and Javik's complete distrust of synthetic life.

The Reapers pupose is to massacre advanced organics, not battle them in war. Anyway, the fact that Shephard made it into that room in the Citadel showed the Catalyst that the organics of this cycle had advanced to a point where the Reapers were now redundant and wouldn't be able to prevent the chaos they were originally designed to.

This of course leaves more questions as to the nature of the Catalyst.

the catalyst thought that synthetics and organics would fight, but as shepard shown by bringing an end to the quarian and geth war that organics and synthetics can live with peace. So it makes no sense that shepard started to agree with the catalyst, and the fact that bioware puts proof in the game that synteTtics and organics can live together this whole origin of the reapers and the god child was just put in so we can have choice A B and C and that horrible ending.



Being in 3rd place never felt so good

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gamrreview has given this game a 9.4/10

http://www.gamrreview.com/review/88885/review-mass-effect-3/



Brent Knowles, former BioWare employee, thoughts on the ending of ME3, clarification he did not play ME3, but gives his thoughts on how a trilogy should end.

I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.

It is a game. Not a movie.

And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.

Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.

Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games... life in general is full of shitty stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note. 



Sorry pressed wrong button.



how do you guys put up/ read spoilers?



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arcane_chaos said:
how do you guys put up/ read spoilers?

When writing a reply, select the text and pick from styles "Spoiler".



zgamer5 said:
Scoobes said:
Darc Requiem said:

4. People were pissed off at the plot holes. ME2's Arrival DLC established that an exploding Mass Relay has the force of Super Nova. No matter what ending you choose all the relays are destroyed. Which means nearly all life in the ME Galaxy should have been wiped out. The Normandy was with the combined Galactic Fleet above Earth and suddenly it's at FTL out running some explosion. One of, or in some cases both, squadmates you take into the final battle on Earth exit the Normandy's hatch after it crashes. That's not even possible. The Illusive Man controlling Shepard and Anderson was plot hole. Indoctrination has never worked that way throughout the entire series. The reason the Catalyst gave for creating the Reapers made no sense. To stop synthetics from wiping out organics, the Catalyst creates a fleet of synthetics that wipe out organics. The ending literally made no sense. It reminds me of the Mass Effect Deception debacle.

Not sure if we're still doing spoiler tags so I covered part of my post.

Just a comment on a few of the plot holes you mentioned:

1. Supernova's (whilst huge) aren't that big and there aren't that many mass relays. There would be plenty of life left after the destruction of all the mass relays.

2. The Normandy suddenly appearing in FTL with members of the crew (including those that were down on Earth) points to a gap in time that I think will probably be filled with the DLC. As it stands, it seems pretty random, although I'd guess it was trying to outrun a mass relay explosion... but yeah...

3. The reasoning the Catalyst gave was to prevent further chaos a complete and all out war would bring. My understanding was that in a 50,000 year cycle organics become too advanced and will lead to a completely chaotic situation whereby organics and synthetics battle continously for millenia. This is heavily hinted towards by the Geth and Javik's complete distrust of synthetic life.

The Reapers pupose is to massacre advanced organics, not battle them in war. Anyway, the fact that Shephard made it into that room in the Citadel showed the Catalyst that the organics of this cycle had advanced to a point where the Reapers were now redundant and wouldn't be able to prevent the chaos they were originally designed to.

This of course leaves more questions as to the nature of the Catalyst.

the catalyst thought that synthetics and organics would fight, but as shepard shown by bringing an end to the quarian and geth war that organics and synthetics can live with peace. So it makes no sense that shepard started to agree with the catalyst, and the fact that bioware puts proof in the game that synteTtics and organics can live together this whole origin of the reapers and the god child was just put in so we can have choice A B and C and that horrible ending.

They can live in peace but for how long? Shephard managed to broker a peace but we're only seeing a small period of time in a 50,000 year cycle. The catalyst mentioned it was done in order to prevent chaos and the making of breaking of alliances prior to an all out and prolonged war of synthetics vs organics seems likely.

I agree though that Shephard normally wouldn't agree, but Shephard doesn't exactly seem completely conscious at the end. He's either suffering from a major concussion or possibly something to do with the indoctrination theory. I would say he's more suceptible to oddball ideas he wouldn't normally accept.



Darc Requiem said:
Scoobes said:
Darc Requiem said:

4. People were pissed off at the plot holes. ME2's Arrival DLC established that an exploding Mass Relay has the force of Super Nova. No matter what ending you choose all the relays are destroyed. Which means nearly all life in the ME Galaxy should have been wiped out. The Normandy was with the combined Galactic Fleet above Earth and suddenly it's at FTL out running some explosion. One of, or in some cases both, squadmates you take into the final battle on Earth exit the Normandy's hatch after it crashes. That's not even possible. The Illusive Man controlling Shepard and Anderson was plot hole. Indoctrination has never worked that way throughout the entire series. The reason the Catalyst gave for creating the Reapers made no sense. To stop synthetics from wiping out organics, the Catalyst creates a fleet of synthetics that wipe out organics. The ending literally made no sense. It reminds me of the Mass Effect Deception debacle.

Not sure if we're still doing spoiler tags so I covered part of my post.

Just a comment on a few of the plot holes you mentioned:

1. Supernova's (whilst huge) aren't that big and there aren't that many mass relays. There would be plenty of life left after the destruction of all the mass relays.

2. The Normandy suddenly appearing in FTL with members of the crew (including those that were down on Earth) points to a gap in time that I think will probably be filled with the DLC. As it stands, it seems pretty random, although I'd guess it was trying to outrun a mass relay explosion... but yeah...

3. The reasoning the Catalyst gave was to prevent further chaos a complete and all out war would bring. My understanding was that in a 50,000 year cycle organics become too advanced and will lead to a completely chaotic situation whereby organics and synthetics battle continously for millenia. This is heavily hinted towards by the Geth and Javik's complete distrust of synthetic life.

The Reapers pupose is to massacre advanced organics, not battle them in war. Anyway, the fact that Shephard made it into that room in the Citadel showed the Catalyst that the organics of this cycle had advanced to a point where the Reapers were now redundant and wouldn't be able to prevent the chaos they were originally designed to.

This of course leaves more questions as to the nature of the Catalyst.


1. You are forgetting that most of the relays are in habitable systems. The Charon Relay is in the Sol System. So Earth and the entire solar system should be wiped out. Be that is it may the entire combined Galactic Fleet, Normandy included, would be destroyed when the Charon Relay explodes. This would be the case for all of the homeworlds of all the major races, if they some how managed to avoid the shockwave. They'd have no homes to return to. Pretty massive plot hole.

2. The Normandy FTL scene just isn't possible. It would require insanely precise timing and that's the least of it. Joker would have to break off from battle and some how manage to pick up the squadmates Shepard brought with him. I say somehow because Harbinger is sitting right there and it appeared that everyone except Shepard was killed by Harbingers attack. If they managed that impossible feat they'd have to get to Charon Relay before Shepard activates the Crucible.

3. The Catalyst created the Reapers to wipe out advanced organic life so that advanced organic life wouldn't create synthetic life that would wipe out organic life. It's nonsensical. They kill organics because organics might create synthetics that kill organics. Plus the Catalyst being the Citadel it self and the brains behind the Reapers contradicts ME1's plot. The Citadel itself being intelligent would make the Keeper's pointless and Sovereign monitoring the progress of organics pointless.

Every indication we have is that the Reapers massacre organics in war every 50,000 years. There are planets all over the Galaxy in ME that have descriptions of orbital bombardments. The derelict Reaper of ME2 was decimated in a War. As was the Leviathan of Dis, that ultimately doomed the Batarians.

1. Yes, most are in habitable systems, but we also know many worlds have been colonised outside of the range of supernova scale blasts.

2. That's assuming no time lag. I'm suggesting there's a time gap between when Shephard reaches the catalyst and making a decision to the events we see. That's the only way I can personally see it occuring in a sensical scenario.

3. The wars last only a century or so. Even the Protheans didn't last far beyond that period. Compared to a 50,000 year cycle that is only a snaphot of time. If organics were to create synthetic life like the Geth, with technology more in line with their own, the war would be far longer and therefore more chaotic. Also, we can't be 100% sure that it's the Citadel that is sentient. The nature of the catalyst is still a huge unknown; it could have simply been projecting an image when Shephard entered that room and be something else entirely.



Rhonin the wizard said:

Brent Knowles, former BioWare employee, thoughts on the ending of ME3, clarification he did not play ME3, but gives his thoughts on how a trilogy should end.

I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said "the ending was awesome because it was just like a movie" and I think she was missing the point.

It is a game. Not a movie.

And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.

Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.

Again, I can't speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in generally I'd say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:

1. Reward the player's choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.

2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games... life in general is full of shitty stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.

When you waste a couple hours of a person's life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note. 

I completely agree with 1. Unfortunately, I can't think of many game's that actually succeed in doing this. Many games succeed in making the players choice impactful leading up to the ending, but then fail to do so in the final ending.

I completely disagree with 2. If a game always ends on a positive note, it begins to feel a bit generic. Plenty of games have had sad but emotional and impactful endings. Metal Gear Solid 3 and Final Fantasy IX come to mind.



Getting a hang for the Engineer, Adept and Sentinel classes.

Adept is pretty badass (especially the human one), with Singularity + Warp for Biotic Explosion. You can take a shitload of Armour from Banshees and Brutes if you manage to get a few Cannibals in between them for explosions. For weapons, I use my old trusty Carnifex pistol...that thing packs a mean punch and it's pretty easy getting Headshots with it

Quarian engineer is a tricky class to play at first, but with the right weaponry it can be pretty deadly. I tried using both the Disciple and the Geth Plasma Shotgun with her, but it just felt off. I fell back to my trusty Carnifex and it's been one heck of a ride with Sentry Turret (W/ Flamethrower) and Incinerate.

As for the Sentinel, only tried the human one, with Tech Armour, Warp and Throw. If you have a M-37 Falcon Assault Rifle, this class is damn fun to play as. Toss a couple of Falcon rounds, Throw enemies around, rinse and repeat for a shitload of kills. It's pretty fun when paired with an Adept class for crowd control (seriously, Biotic Explosions and the Falcon clears mobs like no tommorrow).

Still....I love my infiltrator class too much to give it up

By the way, my N7 is already at 142, but I haven't promoted anyone since my first (and only) Infiltrator promotion, i'm only trying to level up each class to 20 to see which i'll promote. Also, I have a question for the MP users: What kind of packs do you buy? Do you usually save for Spectre only or do you buy more Veteran packs? 



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"