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Forums - Sony - Sony: We Should Probably Develop Less Games

SvennoJ said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
SvennoJ said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
 

For a couple reasons:

1. Doing good enough is what got all of Sony in big trouble today. They should have been aiming for great.

2. Doing good enough, when your competition is doing great, is a bad investment. Sony puts in more work, but gains the least.

3. It is a sign of brand weakness. A big brand must be seen to be growing or it's deemed to be in decline. Even stagnating is seen as this.

4. Brands like Mario and Halo sells more consoles. The costs savings of making 1 IP with the strength of 4 or 5 IP's are rather big.

1. The ps3 was in trouble because they were aiming for great instead of good enough. Too much new tech to make it cost effective.

2. There are a lot of other factors why Sony is in trouble today, not because they are making too many games. The earthquake / tsunami and exchange rate are 2 big ones. Sony only makes 67% on overseas sales with the exchange rate compared to when the ps3 launched. Compare Sony's losses to other Japanese tech companies to put it in perspective. Not against MS who is riding on a weak dollar, thus gaining a lot on overseas sales.

3. As far as I know the ps3 brand is still growing, top of sales again since Januari.

4. Imo libraries is what sells consoles. Sure one great game can convince me to buy a console a little sooner, but without a nice variety of other games to be played on it as well I won't buy it.

1. You shouldn't define doing great in hardware terms. Sony is trying to sell a product to a certain audience - that's their goal. If you miss that by cost, marketing and others factors, then you're not doing great. A great product is what reaches it's audience the best.

2. I was mainly talking about grand game sales here. The exchange rate sure sucks for Sony. But if you compare them against Nintendo their planning/marketing tacticts aren't working vey well.   

3. The playstation brand is in decline. Going form a bit profatable to big losses (the earlie PS3 losses are still not cleared) and going from first place to third. There is no doubt that the PS brand is in decline. Sony said itself it wanted a synergy approach to help the brand grow again...

4. Sure. But in any library you have big games. Real must-have games. The more you have like of them, the better your library gets. Variety is also affected by the big hitters.  A standard library with like 2 or 3 big hitters is just stronger then a standard library with 7 or 8 normal hitters.

Don't forget that titles like Halo and Mario bring whole genre's with them . It's no accident that halo is a shooter and a lot of the same customers bought similar games when they bought a bundle. Smaller games/IP's can ride on the tails of the big brands.

1. I'm not sure what you mean by not aiming for great then. I don't think Sony were just aiming for good enough with the sales of the ps3. They were too arrogant in thinking everyone would fork over $600 for their latest hardware. Then they found out they were not the Apple of console gaming.

This is my point - Sorry if i wasn't clear earlier. Sony thought that was good enough. They  really didn't think any further then a continuation of the PS2.

2. Nintendo is expecting 65 billion Yen loss for 2011. Their planning and marketing wasn't going much better last year.

True. They are still doing better. I didn't mention they had no losses. In fact Nintendo is paying for mistakes which Sony made with the PS3.

3. It was in decline because of 1. But it is recovering now.

This (strange) gen has different salescurves then the previous ones. but the PS3 is still the least selling Sony console. It's very unlikely to pass the PS and certainly not the PS2. That's is a clear decline from the PS and PS2.

4. True, but you can't set out and make 1 must have game simply by putting all your money behind it. Better to spread the risk and get a diverse install base, exactly what ms has been doing after seeing halo starting to run out of steam. Best to have a couple of big hitters, some variety and try out new games to see if they can become the next big thing.
Or do you suggest Sony should forget about new games and only focus on God of war 4, Uncharted 4, MGS5, GT6.

They just need a better evaluation of which IP is more marketable. Untill now that was rather lacking. It's not easy, that's for sure, they just have to do better for the PS brand.

 





In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

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Jexy said:
SvennoJ said:
 

1. I'm not sure what you mean by not aiming for great then. I don't think Sony were just aiming for good enough with the sales of the ps3. They were too arrogant in thinking everyone would fork over $600 for their latest hardware. Then they found out they were not the Apple of console gaming.

2. Nintendo is expecting 65 billion Yen loss for 2011. Their planning and marketing wasn't going much better last year.

3. It was in decline because of 1. But it is recovering now.

4. True, but you can't set out and make 1 must have game simply by putting all your money behind it. Better to spread the risk and get a diverse install base, exactly what ms has been doing after seeing halo starting to run out of steam. Best to have a couple of big hitters, some variety and try out new games to see if they can become the next big thing.
Or do you suggest Sony should forget about new games and only focus on God of war 4, Uncharted 4, MGS5, GT6.

To be fair on number 3... that was basically all the 3DS's doing with their big miscalculation there (that they readily admitted and took full responsibility on, something Sony has trouble admitting).  And the Wii basically died this past year because well... there were no games and its old (tech wise).  But then again, the 3DS seems to be full steam ahead now and the Wii U will come out far before the HD twins get their next gen.  Even still, they didn't lose close to what Sony lost and it was one loss after piling up the money from previous years, which Sony hasn't done in forever.

So should Sony develop less games as well?



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
SvennoJ said:

1. I'm not sure what you mean by not aiming for great then. I don't think Sony were just aiming for good enough with the sales of the ps3. They were too arrogant in thinking everyone would fork over $600 for their latest hardware. Then they found out they were not the Apple of console gaming.

This is my point - Sorry if i wasn't clear earlier. Sony thought that was good enough. They  really didn't think any further then a continuation of the PS2.

2. Nintendo is expecting 65 billion Yen loss for 2011. Their planning and marketing wasn't going much better last year.

True. They are still doing better. I didn't mention they had no losses. In fact Nintendo is paying for mistakes which Sony made with the PS3.

3. It was in decline because of 1. But it is recovering now.

This (strange) gen has different salescurves then the previous ones. but the PS3 is still the least selling Sony console. It's very unlikely to pass the PS and certainly not the PS2. That's is a clear decline from the PS and PS2.

4. True, but you can't set out and make 1 must have game simply by putting all your money behind it. Better to spread the risk and get a diverse install base, exactly what ms has been doing after seeing halo starting to run out of steam. Best to have a couple of big hitters, some variety and try out new games to see if they can become the next big thing.
Or do you suggest Sony should forget about new games and only focus on God of war 4, Uncharted 4, MGS5, GT6.

They just need a better evaluation of which IP is more marketable. Untill now that was rather lacking. It's not easy, that's for sure, they just have to do better for the PS brand.

 

I fully agree on your last point. Sony needs to distinguish better between their big hitters and reasonably well selling games and budget accordingly.

And you're right this gen is quite different. Nobody expected the Wii to be such a run away success with the casuals, while the year head start of 360 and a far better game line up had friends encouraging each other to get a 360 instead of the much more expensive ps3. How Sony could ever think to merely sell the ps3 on brand name and blu-ray without great games to back it up is also beyond me. If that's what you mean with thinking it was good enough, you're right.

So not to repeat this mistake I think the last thing Sony should do is to develop less games. The best strategy imo is to have a few big hitter launch exclusives for ps4 and make the rest of the games run on both ps3 and ps4. Better textures, resolution and framerate on ps4, and a good version on ps3 to make it profitable from the larger user base.



SvennoJ said:
Jexy said:

To be fair on number 3... that was basically all the 3DS's doing with their big miscalculation there (that they readily admitted and took full responsibility on, something Sony has trouble admitting).  And the Wii basically died this past year because well... there were no games and its old (tech wise).  But then again, the 3DS seems to be full steam ahead now and the Wii U will come out far before the HD twins get their next gen.  Even still, they didn't lose close to what Sony lost and it was one loss after piling up the money from previous years, which Sony hasn't done in forever.

So should Sony develop less games as well?

If Sony has say... 15 and Nintendo has 1.   Obviously there needs to be a middle ground.  Say 7.  Xbox had what... 4?  They could have used a couple more, that would have been nice.  But they were still successful.  If you count Kinect games, they had many more.  Sony had too many... it obviously hurt them.  Nintendo is done with this Gen and moving on to the next... I'm pretty sure we can all agree that they abandoned the Wii.  Don't try and put words in my mouth when I've already clearly stated what I think Sony should do.  Which is make a bit fewer games (cutting off the ones that suck, can't be good without a bigger budget, or just don't sell), but not make as little as Nintendo just did for the Wii.  Keep in mind, Nintendo was doing just fine with their middle ground number in all the previous years just like Microsoft has the past few years.  Sony is the one with the different strategy that has failed them since the PS3 launched.  And it's killing them.



BOOM!  FACE KICK!

pezus said:
^No, the yen and TV business is killing them. The gaming part of the company is probably one of the few that is profitable by now.


With a 50 US$/€ price cut and a really strong yen, much more than they predicted, less than previously predicted PS3 sales, Vita launch campaign with really low sales in Japan, PS4 R+D... Do you really think the gaming part is making money?



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badgenome said:
They do seem to own a ridiculous number of inconsequential studios. Ought to shutter a few and moneyhat the fuck out of some big exclusives. Might I suggest Earth Defense Force 2018 for starters?

Now we all know who's been keeping a keen account of the studios all day.  And yeah who gives a fuck for quality stuff any more when mediocre exclusives are winning and actually helping the respective studios in their own way. I guess its definitely not you. Blame the genome?



pezus said:
^No, the yen and TV business is killing them. The gaming part of the company is probably one of the few that is profitable by now.


We don't know how much results like these hurt the company on the long term.

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Killzone 2 PS3 2009 Shooter Sony Computer Entertainment 1.32 0.97 0.08 0.44 2.81
2 Killzone 3 PS3 2011 Shooter Sony Computer Entertainment 1.13 0.65 0.08 0.31 2.18
3 Killzone PS2 2004 Shooter Sony Computer Entertainment 0.79 0.03 0.00 0.13 0.94

 

1 Resistance: Fall of Man PS3 2006 Shooter Sony Computer Entertainment 1.54 1.64 0.14 0.70 4.03
2 Resistance 2 PS3 2008 Shooter Sony Computer Entertainment 1.08 0.76 0.10 0.35 2.28
3 Resistance 3 PS3 2011 Shooter Sony Computer Entertainment 0.42 0.38 0.04 0.16 1.01

But it really doesn't impress. Then, with a saturation of themes, compounded with the lack of funds to offer proper marketing to promising series like Uncharted and InFamous, or even the unreleased The Last of Us, and you have a problem on your hands.



pezus said:

Killzone 3 did almost identically to Killzone 2, with less hype and probably less advertising too. Resistance 3 did pretty well and will eventually reach 2m. The Resistance games are not the most expensive games in the world so I see no reason why 1m in a few months wouldn't be enough to come out even.

Now do the same for the Uncharted franchise or even God of War. Man, Sony need to announce a new God of War this year. 

You're running off the assumption that these titles are not expensive to produce. I understand your reasoning, but I beg to differ, the costs must be much higher than we both might think. If not, why is Sony mentioning this? Are they bsing? I don't think so... I really believe these games cost an arm, maybe a leg, and this company is struggling to break even on these efforts, if not bleeding money. Money that could better be invested in marketing and leveraging sales for more appealing and theme-variant series such as GoW and UC, inFamous, even The Last of Us.



pezus said:
happydolphin said:
pezus said:

Killzone 3 did almost identically to Killzone 2, with less hype and probably less advertising too. Resistance 3 did pretty well and will eventually reach 2m. The Resistance games are not the most expensive games in the world so I see no reason why 1m in a few months wouldn't be enough to come out even.

Now do the same for the Uncharted franchise or even God of War. Man, Sony need to announce a new God of War this year. 

You're running off the assumption that these titles are not expensive to produce. I understand your reasoning, but I beg to differ, the costs must be much higher than we both might think. If not, why is Sony mentioning this? Are they bsing? I don't think so... I really believe these games cost an arm, maybe a leg, and this company is struggling to break even on these efforts, if not bleeding money. Money that could better be invested in marketing and leveraging sales for more appealing and theme-variant series such as GoW and UC, inFamous, even The Last of Us.

They're mentioning it because they aren't profiting as much as they could be, I highly doubt they're losing money on them. Why would they then produce sequel after sequel?

It would be called poor management and unrealistic expectations, as well as possible pressure from studios to create content that is not selling or pressure from management (one or the other).

Hey, Pezus! From OT, k?

It’s easy to say, “Yeah, let’s make three games a year.” But game development is dynamic. You cannot plan to do that. You already have to have a certain number of games in the pipeline hoping they hit in a certain year. We love working on new IPs. It’s really hard to predict when these games get finished.


pezus said:
happydolphin said:

It would be called poor management and unrealistic expectations, as well as possible pressure from studios to create content that is not selling or pressure from management (one or the other).

...or they're making small profits on them, whether straight through software sales or increased interest in the hardware. To your edit: That still doesn't say they're losing money on them, just that they could do better.

It supports the fact that there is a management issues when it comes to the games that are developed, their performance and the allocation of resources. :)