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Forums - Gaming - Vita Problems: Mistakes of the Past

BasilZero said:
JayWood2010 said:



First off this is not a doom thread, but simply pointing out why the Playstation Vita will struggle in the mobile world and also why it will not fail either.

Are you comparing the vita to the Mobile world as in Smartphones? If so, you really cant compare them like that.

  The PSP was unfortunate enough to have the PSP massively hacked and created many problems on the PSP but that is not the only reason games did not sale well on the PSP.

The main reason why software sales were lacking was because about piracy, majority of PSPs that were sold around 2005-2007 were easily hacked/jailbroked with custom firmware from homebrew developers, Sony tried to combat them by releasing a revised version of the PSP, but when the Pandora battery came out, that made any chance of protecting the PSP from piracy obsolete, I wouldnt be surprised if 50%+ users have a custom firmware on their PSP.

Let's go back and think of the games made on the PSP.........Not much right.  I mean yes they had a few like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Crysis Core, and let's not forget about Monster Hunters. But even when you take these games don't you kind of wish they were on the PS3 with better graphics? Wouldn't they have all been better off that way? 

God of War, Metal Gear Solid and Crisis Core were all original games on the PSP , they are not ports. No I wouldnt wish and never wished for a PS3 port/version, thats like saying I wish Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 came out on the Wii as well. Graphics arent everything either.

  That's where you are wrong.  You have some people who look at the graphics and are amazed at what they're seeing so they rush out to buy it.  Then you have others who look at it and say, what is on this that makes it any different than my PS3.  Some will argue that it has touchscreen front and rear, a gyro scope, and a camera. But wait isn't a gyro scope basically sixaxis? And isn't the PS eye a camera? And touchscreen vs buttons?  We have all seen how that ends right?  

Its a portable, what did you expect? You really cant compare the PSVita to the PS3, again that is like comparing the 3DS to the Wii.

However, let's continue with the software shall we.  So it has Uncharted, Wipeout, Modnation racers, Little Big Planet, Killzone, Resistance,etc, etc!  All these First first party games coming to the Vita, it will be an instant hit right?! Wrong.  We are looking at the same mistakes that the PSP made.  All these games are nice but when you have a home console already, why can't I just play it on there?  

You seem to not understand the gaming industry rule, if it sells, make it for that system. Just because it came out on the PS3 doesnt mean it cant come out on the PSVita. Would you rather not have any First party titles from Sony on the Vita? Also those game versions that are coming out on the vita are actually original games, their not ports or remakes (except for Modnation Racers).

We have all these games for the PS3 but now we can have them on a portable but with not quite as good of graphics, a smaller screen, and not as good as audio. But i know, I know, Nintendo remakes games all the time for the 3DS and DS.  Just look at all the Mario and Zelda games right?  Well you are right but a lot of people miss things like Mario and Zelda fits in perfectly with the mobile crowd.  Or that Zelda games on the DS are usually a lot different than the console version, and really its Mario.  Mario is an icon, that's all that needs to be said.  Then you have franchises that are built specifically for the DS and 3DS like pokemon. 

Apples to Oranges. Nintendo's first party titles will always sell better than Sony's, thats a fact, not a opinion. Comparing Nintendo's first party titles to Sony's first party titles is like comparing Final Fantasy to every other RPG series that is out there. Look at the comparison between Tales series and Final Fantasy? Which sells more? FF because of its brand name, its more known throughout the world than Tales series, I know alot of people who know and love FF but never heard of Tales series. The same logic applies to Nintendo and Sony titles.

This all being said Sony has a game that can rival Nintendo with Monster Hunters......Unfortunately the 3DS has that now too which means the Vita lost it's flagship with the Vita. So what games can take over now and have a real impact on the Vita?

All Nintendo had were first party titles with the inclusion of a few casual games that are a huge hit that are oh wow made by Nintendo as well (i.e. Nintendogs).

Capcom will always go after the system that will have a huge number of sales and whatever will run MH best, Capcom isnt there to help Sony or Nintendo, their watching their own backs and just want $$$$, this generation the 3DS is capable of running their game unlike the NDS which lacked and was released on the PSP. I wouldnt be surprised if we see a ipad version of MH in the coming months/years.

As for MH overall, it isnt everything, eventually a new IP or some other game will take its place as the main system seller. Its just too soon to know what it is.


  The Vita has also started it's selling point at $250 or $300 with the 3G model.  Or is it.  Considering the heavy pricing of the memory cards which allows you to play games you are probably looking at $280 at least.

Blame Hackers for that extra $30 and memory cards.

 Then you have the same people I talked about earlier who says, well the technology is huge and it's worth it.  Well I would have to say yes, but is it to much for a mobile device that you can find something similar on the PS3 for a cheaper price but with slightly better graphics?

No you cant, you're talking like as if the same exact games are on the PS3, Wipeout 2048 and Uncharted GA arent (will they be? maybe in the future from 2 years from now maybe). Along with that, alot of the ports that are incoming in are for those who never had the original game like me for an example, I never got to play any of the old PS3 games because I purchased my PS3 back in November 2011, never got the chance to play Disgaea 3, I will now on the vita, and not only that it will contain all of the DLCs that the PS3 version had along with new content that the original didnt have, that is a plus for me and I am pretty sure fans of the series will buy it again or buy it now if they havent before.

The same logic will apply for most other games that are coming out that are ports. You also have to realize some people like playing games on the road, if you are deciding on buying a game system, the main question is you should ask yourself: Should I buy it so I can go and play these games on the road or should I buy the other alternative for a bigger screen at home? Not the way you are asking, graphics again arent a issue and shouldnt be a reason to buy a game system. Portability, Software Library and features should always sway a consumer who is thinking about buying a PSVita before graphics.

The PSVita is $250 dollars while the PS3 is currently 299.99-349.99 (bundle) also, I guess I'll get the PSVita if I used the $$$ logic.


Truth is, Sony has made these mistakes in the past but just like the PSP I don't believe the Vita will fail, but it will struggle unless it can bring games out that can not be found anywhere else. Meaning no more remakes, but something built from the ground up specifically for the Vita itself.

This will be up to the first/second and mostly third party developers, nothing anyone else can do about, Sony will never have the same selling power as Nintendo, so their best best is to depend on the third party developers, hopefully they will not take as long as they did with the PSP.


They seriously need to do something with the quoting system in these forums, its horrible lol. lol

this



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JayWood2010 said:

Vita Problems: Mistakes of the Past

First off this is not a doom thread, but simply pointing out why the Playstation Vita will struggle in the mobile world and also why it will not fail either.

People Look at the PSP and you will hear many people with mixed reactions.  Some saying it was a success and others saying it was a fail.  In terms of hardware sales it surpassed being a success, selling over 73 million consoles worldwide and still selling today.  Before the PSP there was really no successful portable console made by anybody other than Nintendo, so this was a great achievement alone for Sony, however in software sales is where the PSP lacked.  The PSP was unfortunate enough to have the PSP massively hacked and created many problems on the PSP but that is not the only reason games did not sale well on the PSP. Let's go back and think of the games made on the PSP.........Not much right.  I mean yes they had a few like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Crysis Core, and let's not forget about Monster Hunters. But even when you take these games don't you kind of wish they were on the PS3 with better graphics? Wouldn't they have all been better off that way? 

Now let's fast forward a bit.  Now we have a brand new portable console called the Playstation Vita AKA PSP2. So now that the Vita is coming out with home console like graphics this thing should be a huge hit right?  That's where you are wrong.  You have some people who look at the graphics and are amazed at what they're seeing so they rush out to buy it.  Then you have others who look at it and say, what is on this that makes it any different than my PS3.  Some will argue that it has touchscreen front and rear, a gyro scope, and a camera. But wait isn't a gyro scope basically sixaxis? And isn't the PS eye a camera? And touchscreen vs buttons?  We have all seen how that ends right?  

However, let's continue with the software shall we.  So it has Uncharted, Wipeout, Modnation racers, Little Big Planet, Killzone, Resistance,etc, etc!  All these First first party games coming to the Vita, it will be an instant hit right?! Wrong.  We are looking at the same mistakes that the PSP made.  All these games are nice but when you have a home console already, why can't I just play it on there?  We have all these games for the PS3 but now we can have them on a portable but with not quite as good of graphics, a smaller screen, and not as good as audio. But i know, I know, Nintendo remakes games all the time for the 3DS and DS.  Just look at all the Mario and Zelda games right?  Well you are right but a lot of people miss things like Mario and Zelda fits in perfectly with the mobile crowd.  Or that Zelda games on the DS are usually a lot different than the console version, and really its Mario.  Mario is an icon, that's all that needs to be said.  Then you have franchises that are built specifically for the DS and 3DS like pokemon.  This all being said Sony has a game that can rival Nintendo with Monster Hunters......Unfortunately the 3DS has that now too which means the Vita lost it's flagship with the Vita. So what games can take over now and have a real impact on the Vita?

Last but not least we look at the price.  When the 3DS first came out it paid heavily for pricing the system at $250 with no big name titles.  Since then it has dropped the price to $170 dollars with many big name titles and constently being the top seller of all consoles worldwide on a weekly basis.  The Vita has also started it's selling point at $250 or $300 with the 3G model.  Or is it.  Considering the heavy pricing of the memory cards which allows you to play games you are probably looking at $280 at least.  Then you have the same people I talked about earlier who says, well the technology is huge and it's worth it.  Well I would have to say yes, but is it to much for a mobile device that you can find something similar on the PS3 for a cheaper price but with slightly better graphics? 

Truth is, Sony has made these mistakes in the past but just like the PSP I don't believe the Vita will fail, but it will struggle unless it can bring games out that can not be found anywhere else. Meaning no more remakes, but something built from the ground up specifically for the Vita itself. 

What do you all think, comment and have fun.  And keep it civil.

I don't see how remake is not good for the PSVita?When you see best selling game in PSP all bestseller are remake,port and Spin Off of homes consoles without this games the PSP will not sell that whell and we all know this will be true from PSVita also.Gravity Rush wich is a unique game w'ont sell well.

New IP are good in the Mid-life of the console not now ,now they need popular games.

You also said that Mario are zelda are different in handheld but Metal Peace Walker are also different and suited for handheld  but people said that is the worst metal gear solid game is the serie,PSVita has also a unique Silent Hill but evryone hate it i think because the audience are different in Sony handheld  and Nintendo ones ,the touchscreen also add in Little Big Planet much more value there are many level that is better with touch screen the editor of level become more easy and more fun.

Also PSVita has many new IP like Escape plan,Little devient,Gravity rush... and i'm sure more new IP will come when the install base grow.

For the price is not a big problem because the price won't still the same for ever they will be reduce.



PS4 - over 100 millions let's say 120m
Xbox One - 70m
Wii U - 25m

Vita - 15m if it will not get Final Fantasy Kingdoms Heart and Monster Hunter 20m otherwise
3DS - 80m

Pretty sensible analysis. However, I suspect that Sony would be perfectly content for Vita to follow exactly in the PSP's footsteps, but with lower piracy rates. No shame in coming 2nd to Nintendo in the portable market.



small44 said:
JayWood2010 said:

Vita Problems: Mistakes of the Past

First off this is not a doom thread, but simply pointing out why the Playstation Vita will struggle in the mobile world and also why it will not fail either.

People Look at the PSP and you will hear many people with mixed reactions.  Some saying it was a success and others saying it was a fail.  In terms of hardware sales it surpassed being a success, selling over 73 million consoles worldwide and still selling today.  Before the PSP there was really no successful portable console made by anybody other than Nintendo, so this was a great achievement alone for Sony, however in software sales is where the PSP lacked.  The PSP was unfortunate enough to have the PSP massively hacked and created many problems on the PSP but that is not the only reason games did not sale well on the PSP. Let's go back and think of the games made on the PSP.........Not much right.  I mean yes they had a few like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Crysis Core, and let's not forget about Monster Hunters. But even when you take these games don't you kind of wish they were on the PS3 with better graphics? Wouldn't they have all been better off that way? 

Now let's fast forward a bit.  Now we have a brand new portable console called the Playstation Vita AKA PSP2. So now that the Vita is coming out with home console like graphics this thing should be a huge hit right?  That's where you are wrong.  You have some people who look at the graphics and are amazed at what they're seeing so they rush out to buy it.  Then you have others who look at it and say, what is on this that makes it any different than my PS3.  Some will argue that it has touchscreen front and rear, a gyro scope, and a camera. But wait isn't a gyro scope basically sixaxis? And isn't the PS eye a camera? And touchscreen vs buttons?  We have all seen how that ends right?  

However, let's continue with the software shall we.  So it has Uncharted, Wipeout, Modnation racers, Little Big Planet, Killzone, Resistance,etc, etc!  All these First first party games coming to the Vita, it will be an instant hit right?! Wrong.  We are looking at the same mistakes that the PSP made.  All these games are nice but when you have a home console already, why can't I just play it on there?  We have all these games for the PS3 but now we can have them on a portable but with not quite as good of graphics, a smaller screen, and not as good as audio. But i know, I know, Nintendo remakes games all the time for the 3DS and DS.  Just look at all the Mario and Zelda games right?  Well you are right but a lot of people miss things like Mario and Zelda fits in perfectly with the mobile crowd.  Or that Zelda games on the DS are usually a lot different than the console version, and really its Mario.  Mario is an icon, that's all that needs to be said.  Then you have franchises that are built specifically for the DS and 3DS like pokemon.  This all being said Sony has a game that can rival Nintendo with Monster Hunters......Unfortunately the 3DS has that now too which means the Vita lost it's flagship with the Vita. So what games can take over now and have a real impact on the Vita?

Last but not least we look at the price.  When the 3DS first came out it paid heavily for pricing the system at $250 with no big name titles.  Since then it has dropped the price to $170 dollars with many big name titles and constently being the top seller of all consoles worldwide on a weekly basis.  The Vita has also started it's selling point at $250 or $300 with the 3G model.  Or is it.  Considering the heavy pricing of the memory cards which allows you to play games you are probably looking at $280 at least.  Then you have the same people I talked about earlier who says, well the technology is huge and it's worth it.  Well I would have to say yes, but is it to much for a mobile device that you can find something similar on the PS3 for a cheaper price but with slightly better graphics? 

Truth is, Sony has made these mistakes in the past but just like the PSP I don't believe the Vita will fail, but it will struggle unless it can bring games out that can not be found anywhere else. Meaning no more remakes, but something built from the ground up specifically for the Vita itself. 

What do you all think, comment and have fun.  And keep it civil.

I don't see how remake is not good for the PSVita?When you see best selling game in PSP all bestseller are remake,port and Spin Off of homes consoles without this games the PSP will not sell that whell and we all know this will be true from PSVita also.Gravity Rush wich is a unique game w'ont sell well.

New IP are good in the Mid-life of the console not now ,now they need popular games.

You also said that Mario are zelda are different in handheld but Metal Peace Walker are also different and suited for handheld  but people said that is the worst metal gear solid game is the serie,PSVita has also a unique Silent Hill but evryone hate it i think because the audience are different in Sony handheld  and Nintendo ones ,the touchscreen also add in Little Big Planet much more value there are many level that is better with touch screen the editor of level become more easy and more fun.

Also PSVita has many new IP like Escape plan,Little devient,Gravity rush... and i'm sure more new IP will come when the install base grow.

For the price is not a big problem because the price won't still the same for ever they will be reduce.


I saw where you said new IP are good in the middle od a console's life.  May be good for the console (if that's what you mean) but devs have said time and again that it's best for them to release a new IP early in a console's life.  People are more open to new things earlier than later.  I think the Vita will do well with new IP as long as the install base is decent.  Your comment about PSP games like MGSPW and Silent Hill--it's a tough nut to crack.  MGSPW was a good game (Silent Hill sucked, though) but audiences just didn't embrace it.  Yet, a game like Res Evil Revelations on the 3DS is doing very well.  Don't know what to say about that one.



d21lewis said:

I saw where you said new IP are good in the middle od a console's life.  May be good for the console (if that's what you mean) but devs have said time and again that it's best for them to release a new IP early in a console's life.  People are more open to new things earlier than later.  I think the Vita will do well with new IP as long as the install base is decent.  Your comment about PSP games like MGSPW and Silent Hill--it's a tough nut to crack.  MGSPW was a good game (Silent Hill sucked, though) but audiences just didn't embrace it.  Yet, a game like Res Evil Revelations on the 3DS is doing very well.  Don't know what to say about that one.

It is definitely true that early adopters are far more open to buying anything remotely close to their interests on new platforms, even if for no reason other than a lack of competition or superior alternatives. I'm not sure if this is a matter of being more open so much as being a matter of just buying a new piece of hardware and wanting to have as much reason to use it as possible, to include playing games that would not have warranted a purchase even a year later with better options available. 

Speaking personally, I have to say that it's a tough tendency to resist. Many of the worst games I've bought on any platform happened to be among the earliest. 

I think part of the other problem with portable games in general is that they cannot and generally aren't expected to perform as well commercially as a console release. There are exceptions of course. And of course, the lower sales are offset by lower production costs and faster turnaround development times. If Peace Walker had been a PS3 game, it probably would have taken an extra year at minimum to develop. 

Something like Revelations (I think the only reason I haven't bought a copy yet is because I have a PSV on order) is what I would consider a title many may have bought a 3DS for. I'm sure a larger percentage of 3DS owners bought theirs to play Mario Kart or Mario World, but there is definitely a significant niche of players who may even favor 3rd party games over the prerequisite Nintendo franchises, even on Nintendo hardware. 



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scottie said:
Pretty sensible analysis. However, I suspect that Sony would be perfectly content for Vita to follow exactly in the PSP's footsteps, but with lower piracy rates. No shame in coming 2nd to Nintendo in the portable market.


I agree, and don't think Sony would be too upset to sell an average of 10 Million units per year, but I'm not convinced they're in the position to have that strong of performance ...

It will be months before we have a good feeling for how the PS-Vita is selling outside of Japan, but with how it is selling inside of Japan it may be an indicator that the PS-Vita has a long way to go before it can be said that the PS-Vita performing as well as the PSP.



Just one dumb comparison. You say the PSP and Vita don't have "unique" games that weren't more enjoyable on a PS3 with better graphics...Now tell me, which 3DS games couldn't be made for the Wii? Super Mario Land 3D? I'd rather play Super Mario Galaxy on a Wii. Mario Kart Why always people claim PSP-Vita games are cheap copies of better console games and I never hear the same about the (3)DS? I can't see any difference...



Game of the year 2017 so far:

5. Resident Evil VII
4. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
3. Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
2. Horizon Zero Dawn
1. Super Mario Odyssey

d21lewis said:
small44 said:
JayWood2010 said:

Vita Problems: Mistakes of the Past

First off this is not a doom thread, but simply pointing out why the Playstation Vita will struggle in the mobile world and also why it will not fail either.

People Look at the PSP and you will hear many people with mixed reactions.  Some saying it was a success and others saying it was a fail.  In terms of hardware sales it surpassed being a success, selling over 73 million consoles worldwide and still selling today.  Before the PSP there was really no successful portable console made by anybody other than Nintendo, so this was a great achievement alone for Sony, however in software sales is where the PSP lacked.  The PSP was unfortunate enough to have the PSP massively hacked and created many problems on the PSP but that is not the only reason games did not sale well on the PSP. Let's go back and think of the games made on the PSP.........Not much right.  I mean yes they had a few like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Crysis Core, and let's not forget about Monster Hunters. But even when you take these games don't you kind of wish they were on the PS3 with better graphics? Wouldn't they have all been better off that way? 

Now let's fast forward a bit.  Now we have a brand new portable console called the Playstation Vita AKA PSP2. So now that the Vita is coming out with home console like graphics this thing should be a huge hit right?  That's where you are wrong.  You have some people who look at the graphics and are amazed at what they're seeing so they rush out to buy it.  Then you have others who look at it and say, what is on this that makes it any different than my PS3.  Some will argue that it has touchscreen front and rear, a gyro scope, and a camera. But wait isn't a gyro scope basically sixaxis? And isn't the PS eye a camera? And touchscreen vs buttons?  We have all seen how that ends right?  

However, let's continue with the software shall we.  So it has Uncharted, Wipeout, Modnation racers, Little Big Planet, Killzone, Resistance,etc, etc!  All these First first party games coming to the Vita, it will be an instant hit right?! Wrong.  We are looking at the same mistakes that the PSP made.  All these games are nice but when you have a home console already, why can't I just play it on there?  We have all these games for the PS3 but now we can have them on a portable but with not quite as good of graphics, a smaller screen, and not as good as audio. But i know, I know, Nintendo remakes games all the time for the 3DS and DS.  Just look at all the Mario and Zelda games right?  Well you are right but a lot of people miss things like Mario and Zelda fits in perfectly with the mobile crowd.  Or that Zelda games on the DS are usually a lot different than the console version, and really its Mario.  Mario is an icon, that's all that needs to be said.  Then you have franchises that are built specifically for the DS and 3DS like pokemon.  This all being said Sony has a game that can rival Nintendo with Monster Hunters......Unfortunately the 3DS has that now too which means the Vita lost it's flagship with the Vita. So what games can take over now and have a real impact on the Vita?

Last but not least we look at the price.  When the 3DS first came out it paid heavily for pricing the system at $250 with no big name titles.  Since then it has dropped the price to $170 dollars with many big name titles and constently being the top seller of all consoles worldwide on a weekly basis.  The Vita has also started it's selling point at $250 or $300 with the 3G model.  Or is it.  Considering the heavy pricing of the memory cards which allows you to play games you are probably looking at $280 at least.  Then you have the same people I talked about earlier who says, well the technology is huge and it's worth it.  Well I would have to say yes, but is it to much for a mobile device that you can find something similar on the PS3 for a cheaper price but with slightly better graphics? 

Truth is, Sony has made these mistakes in the past but just like the PSP I don't believe the Vita will fail, but it will struggle unless it can bring games out that can not be found anywhere else. Meaning no more remakes, but something built from the ground up specifically for the Vita itself. 

What do you all think, comment and have fun.  And keep it civil.

I don't see how remake is not good for the PSVita?When you see best selling game in PSP all bestseller are remake,port and Spin Off of homes consoles without this games the PSP will not sell that whell and we all know this will be true from PSVita also.Gravity Rush wich is a unique game w'ont sell well.

New IP are good in the Mid-life of the console not now ,now they need popular games.

You also said that Mario are zelda are different in handheld but Metal Peace Walker are also different and suited for handheld  but people said that is the worst metal gear solid game is the serie,PSVita has also a unique Silent Hill but evryone hate it i think because the audience are different in Sony handheld  and Nintendo ones ,the touchscreen also add in Little Big Planet much more value there are many level that is better with touch screen the editor of level become more easy and more fun.

Also PSVita has many new IP like Escape plan,Little devient,Gravity rush... and i'm sure more new IP will come when the install base grow.

For the price is not a big problem because the price won't still the same for ever they will be reduce.


I saw where you said new IP are good in the middle od a console's life.  May be good for the console (if that's what you mean) but devs have said time and again that it's best for them to release a new IP early in a console's life.  People are more open to new things earlier than later.  I think the Vita will do well with new IP as long as the install base is decent.  Your comment about PSP games like MGSPW and Silent Hill--it's a tough nut to crack.  MGSPW was a good game (Silent Hill sucked, though) but audiences just didn't embrace it.  Yet, a game like Res Evil Revelations on the 3DS is doing very well.  Don't know what to say about that one.

New IP we don't now many thing about them and abour their quality so i don't think a person will buy a console just for one unknown game but series of games has a big fanbase who's buy this games whatever their qualities.

But in the middle of console life people who's buy the console has many games and can't in sometimes buy a new IP even when they are bad we will say when Gravity Rush out if the game succes i'm sure a big number of developpers will create even more new IP.

That my point of view.



PS4 - over 100 millions let's say 120m
Xbox One - 70m
Wii U - 25m

Vita - 15m if it will not get Final Fantasy Kingdoms Heart and Monster Hunter 20m otherwise
3DS - 80m

ghettoglamour said:
Just one dumb comparison. You say the PSP and Vita don't have "unique" games that weren't more enjoyable on a PS3 with better graphics...Now tell me, which 3DS games couldn't be made for the Wii? 

That's not exactly what he said, but to provide examples of 3DS games that the OP was talking about 

 

Professor Layton

Nintendogs

Monster Hunter

Pokemon spinoffs

As the really popular ones. The 3DS also has a variety of smaller games, such as the Sims franchise, Lego franchise etc

 

 

Are all games that will sell portable hardware. The 3DS also has a Pokemon game comnig soon - the king of portable games, that Vita will need to compete with.