Have you ever stopped to realize you're one of the only users with who topics get more confused, rather than answers found?

Why is that, you should seriously ask yourself.

A man throws oil on the floor before a passer-by. The passer-by slips and says "hey, watch it! And try not to be too sloppy."

As the passer-by walks away, the careless man has the nerve to say to the passer-by:

"Next time, don't slip... And then you call me sloppy!"

Which poster is who in this story?

I'm making the mistakes because you're sloppy, yet you find me at fault because you're not taking the time to think things through.

I didnt see your points till after I read his and to be honest, i still agree with the other guy, you really dont know if they got their hands on a controller to reverse engineer. Now its been a while since I touched an N64 controller, but that needed a rumble pak if im not mistaken. Sony didnt, it worked just spinning these medal things in the controller. MOVE is another example, people swear they copied and if your idea of copying is reverse engineering, i dont think they did. THe MOVE does the same thing Wiimote does but does it differently, PSeye really does do most of the heavy lifting and the eye came from the eyetoy which came out long before Wii. Hell it uses the sixaxis tech as well which Sony had in PS3 since day one and seeing as how PS3 and Wii came out around the same time, i doubt Sony had time to get a Wiimote and put out thier sixaxis so quickly. As for the dual sticks itself?? Yeah they might have reverse engineered that thing. 

BUt here is my question, so what?? We sound like some stupid kids saying who copied who. If they make actual improvements that only benefits gamers, Sony saw N64 controller and made improvements on that and their own design. They gave and extra stick and a rumble feature that didnt need some wonky pak, only an idiot would think that wasnt an improvement. They looked at the Wiimote, used their eye tech to improve on that, now they have a more accurate controller and augmented reality to booth. MS say PSeye and Kinect is a huge step up from that. If anything NInty needs to copy MORE, they seem to have this attitude that if they didnt make it, it has no value to gaming, like they are the end all be all in gaming and thats BS.  THat attitude has gotten them into trouble before. I hope that their online tech boys are staring at an XBOX Live screen and seeing how that works, cause they cant do it themselves. Another example of them doing something just to be different, irregardless if what they are making actual works. WiiSpeak, the hell was that?? Everyone else is using headsets, PC gamers have been using it for YEARS and Ninty comes with their we're Ninty and we do our own thing nonsense and...well we know how crappy it was. The funny thing is the PSeye has the same function and it does it much better.

C'mon people, let's not argue! Mods will start coming in at this point.

Okay, I agree with you, it's childish of us. Let's just agree Nintendoo came up with it, and Sony, seeing their working solution, came up with their own flavor which also worked.

Fyi, N64's analog didn't require the rumble pack, but it doesn't matter.

The Dualshock was an afterthought to the PS1, whoch made use of it, but it's Nintendo who first exposed a vast audience of its added value, that's all I ask, credit where due.

I'm not saying Sony copied, I retract that, okay. But let's give Ninty the credit and just shut up with the Vectrex argument (the shut up is more aimed at o_O.Q).

absoluetly, dualshock was definately an aferthought, no debate from me their. ANd if people are not giving Ninty their due, for shame

Halleluiah! Faith in humanity restored :) o_O.Q really caused me bitterness... but this post more than restores the ache. Thank you oni, you are awesome, greek man kisses I give you! Mouah! :)

i didn't deny that the dual shock was an afterthought

the main point i tried to make before is that if nintendo fans can credit nintendo with making motion gaming mainstream because of the wii's sales 

then how can they also say that for the n64 ( in terms of analog tech ) when it sold far less than its competitor that had analogs?

and i have and continue to give nintendo credit for adding their own take on the technology and also sony and microsoft 

You unintentionally discredit them by mentioning the Vectrex. It is 100% irrelevant, until somebody with hands-on experience can tell us it used pressure sensitivity and was controlled by the thumb. Otherwise, it has 0 relevance and only serves to discredit Nintendo's effort.

As I said to Oni, the fact that the 64 brought it to a reasonable audience prior to the PS1 is enough to argue that Nintendo brought it to the masses first, not the other way around.

As for motion controls, in what case was motion controls introduced to gaming, but at the same time not bring it to the masses? The power glove? This time answer the question bud.

" You unintentionally discredit them by mentioning the Vectrex. It is 100% irrelevant"

how is mentioning the work that was built upon by microsoft, nintendo and sony irrelevant?... or do you believe nintendo came up with analogs on their own?

"the fact that the 64 brought it to a reasonable audience prior to the PS1 is enough to argue that Nintendo brought it to the masses first"

awesome... but that wasn't my point "making motion gaming mainstream " you're falling into the same habit from before of saying i've said things i haven't said

making something mainstream has absolutely nothing to do with when you bring it to market just the market penetration of the product ( to my knowledge )

thats why people say the iphone made smartphones mainstream even though several smartphones existed before it

"As for motion controls, in what case was motion controls introduced to gaming, but at the same time not bring it to the masses?"

i'm confused by your question but yes i can think of motion gaming that existed before the wii

off the top of my head motion gaming with web cameras, certain arcade games etc

( i'm quite sure there are several examples but i really don't konw much about motion gaming's history, but the wii definitely was not the first but it is undoubtedly the most successful )