By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - Spain unemployment now 5m (22.8%), Highest in industrialised world.

Kasz216 on 12 February 2012
routsounmanman said:
Kasz216 said:
routsounmanman said:
Mr Khan said:
routsounmanman said:
Greece is ATM at 21% (official) and still rapidly rising. And if the new austerity measures (economy killers I say) come through today, woohoo, we'll be no.1

Some of the Papademos cabinet resigned over the proposals, didn't they? It's safe to say the Greeks are determined to resist austerity

Wouldn't you if you already had your income cut by more than 40-50% already while our useless polititians got raises? You have to understand that most people here in Greece, know that we all had our share in our deficits, but only few bear the burden still, thus the riots.

And what would you do if aforementioned polititians did nothing for the best of your country? We have the strongest negotiation "card" in the world ATM. A Greek disorderly default could potentialy destroy the entire global economic system! Wouldn't you haggle more?

I'm not saying that we should blackmail the EU, but the measures could have been a bit smoother and fair overall. On  top of that, all of Europe tags us as useless, lazy and EU cancer!

Maybe a few months ago.  Everyones pretty much written in the probability of a greek default at this point.

All a disorderly default would do at this point is force greece out of the EU.

Switching it's debt into Drachmas... which would then be greatly devalued vs their debts in euros....

HUGELY raising their debt.

That's not true. Who in their right mind would buy / keep Portugese / Irish / Italian / Spanish bonds after a Greek default? People would start transfering money to other countries as well. The banks would simply not keep up.

What's one got to do with the other?

Just that greece is a totally irresponsible country unwilling to live up to it's debts doesn't mean other eurozone countries are that way.

Other countries willing to do their fair share austerity wise will be fine.


The problem with Greece defaulting was that they owed debt to banks in other countries, including other eurozone countries, and that foreign banks would be badly wounded or even collapse or need massive bailouts due to being overleveraged and not having enough captial on hand.

Since then said banks have been raising capital and a "firewall" has been built around greece with plenty of room for more of a firewall if need be.



Around the Network
zuvuyeay on 12 February 2012

its all very interesting politiking from the eu autocrats but how are they going to stop the civil unrest in greece even if it is by the minority which a greek professor said on newsnight(uk),surely the streets are going to burn whatever now or am i completely off the boil vgc greeks?,how long could it last and how will it be stopped do you think



                                                                                                                                        Above & Beyond

   

Troll_Whisperer on 12 February 2012
HappySqurriel said:
Having done a quick google search, the most up to date reference of the employment to population ratio in Spain that I could find was January 2009 and it was 47.9% ...

If the unemployment statistics were honest, Spain's unemployment rate would probably be closer to 40% (or higher).

Nah, I'm Spanish and 40% is impossible. Even the 22% figure is inflated by people who work without a contract and get benefits at the same time.

Maybe what you saw was youth unemployment figures, which is possible.



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

HappySqurriel on 12 February 2012
Troll_Whisperer said:
HappySqurriel said:
Having done a quick google search, the most up to date reference of the employment to population ratio in Spain that I could find was January 2009 and it was 47.9% ...

If the unemployment statistics were honest, Spain's unemployment rate would probably be closer to 40% (or higher).

Nah, I'm Spanish and 40% is impossible. Even the 22% figure is inflated by people who work without a contract and get benefits at the same time.

Maybe what you saw was youth unemployment figures, which is possible.

Employment to population ratio is the percentage people aged 15 to 65 who are employeed ...

While you will never get close to 100% due to students, stay at home moms and people who retire early, you can theoritically get into the low-mid 70% range; which at 47.9% would represent around 35% below peak employment. Being that it has (from my understanding) gotten much worse since 2009, which is the year I got my statistics from, the true unemployment ratio is probably closer to 40%; and (probably) 33% below what you could realistically expect as peak employment.



routsounmanman on 12 February 2012
Kasz216 said:
routsounmanman said:
Kasz216 said:
routsounmanman said:
Mr Khan said:
routsounmanman said:
Greece is ATM at 21% (official) and still rapidly rising. And if the new austerity measures (economy killers I say) come through today, woohoo, we'll be no.1

Some of the Papademos cabinet resigned over the proposals, didn't they? It's safe to say the Greeks are determined to resist austerity

Wouldn't you if you already had your income cut by more than 40-50% already while our useless polititians got raises? You have to understand that most people here in Greece, know that we all had our share in our deficits, but only few bear the burden still, thus the riots.

And what would you do if aforementioned polititians did nothing for the best of your country? We have the strongest negotiation "card" in the world ATM. A Greek disorderly default could potentialy destroy the entire global economic system! Wouldn't you haggle more?

I'm not saying that we should blackmail the EU, but the measures could have been a bit smoother and fair overall. On  top of that, all of Europe tags us as useless, lazy and EU cancer!

Maybe a few months ago.  Everyones pretty much written in the probability of a greek default at this point.

All a disorderly default would do at this point is force greece out of the EU.

Switching it's debt into Drachmas... which would then be greatly devalued vs their debts in euros....

HUGELY raising their debt.

That's not true. Who in their right mind would buy / keep Portugese / Irish / Italian / Spanish bonds after a Greek default? People would start transfering money to other countries as well. The banks would simply not keep up.

What's one got to do with the other?

Just that greece is a totally irresponsible country unwilling to live up to it's debts doesn't mean other eurozone countries are that way.

Other countries willing to do their fair share austerity wise will be fine.


The problem with Greece defaulting was that they owed debt to banks in other countries, including other eurozone countries, and that foreign banks would be badly wounded or even collapse or need massive bailouts due to being overleveraged and not having enough captial on hand.

Since then said banks have been raising capital and a "firewall" has been built around greece with plenty of room for more of a firewall if need be.

Domino effect; If one country is allowed to default, Portugal and Ireland would be in the hotspot. And if you think austerity in the middle of recession has any chance of succeding, you couldn't be more wrong, both Greece and Portugal (and Ireland to an extent) prove that.



My themeforest portfolio:

http://themeforest.net/user/corethemes/portfolio

Around the Network
Marks on 12 February 2012
osamanobama said:
incase people are still confused... socialism doesnt work.

America wake up


This. 

The government can't create jobs, only the private sector can do that. 



Marks on 12 February 2012
KillerMan said:
osamanobama said:
incase people are still confused... socialism doesnt work.

America wake up

Yep. That is why Nordic countries and Germans are so fucked with their huge unemployement figures and rising bond yields. Oh wait...


And that's why Greece, Italy and Spain are prospering. Oh wait...



Troll_Whisperer on 12 February 2012
HappySqurriel said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
HappySqurriel said:
Having done a quick google search, the most up to date reference of the employment to population ratio in Spain that I could find was January 2009 and it was 47.9% ...

If the unemployment statistics were honest, Spain's unemployment rate would probably be closer to 40% (or higher).

Nah, I'm Spanish and 40% is impossible. Even the 22% figure is inflated by people who work without a contract and get benefits at the same time.

Maybe what you saw was youth unemployment figures, which is possible.

Employment to population ratio is the percentage people aged 15 to 65 who are employeed ...

While you will never get close to 100% due to students, stay at home moms and people who retire early, you can theoritically get into the low-mid 70% range; which at 47.9% would represent around 35% below peak employment. Being that it has (from my understanding) gotten much worse since 2009, which is the year I got my statistics from, the true unemployment ratio is probably closer to 40%; and (probably) 33% below what you could realistically expect as peak employment.

I know employment figues are taken from 16 to 65. There is no 40% unemployment in that group, believe me. I would like to see that page you read that from, that just can't be true. I'm not defending Spain, I've been very critical in this very thread.

Edit: Oh, I see what you mean. You mean you're counting those who're not actively looking for a job. In that case I don't know, it may be. It seems like a huge number to me, although I come from an area where unemployment is around 12% now. The south of Spain is where most uneployed people are (some areas have over a 30% unemployment).



No troll is too much for me to handle. I rehabilitate trolls, I train people. I am the Troll Whisperer.

Kasz216 on 12 February 2012
routsounmanman said:
Kasz216 said:
routsounmanman said:
Kasz216 said:
routsounmanman said:
Mr Khan said:
routsounmanman said:
Greece is ATM at 21% (official) and still rapidly rising. And if the new austerity measures (economy killers I say) come through today, woohoo, we'll be no.1

Some of the Papademos cabinet resigned over the proposals, didn't they? It's safe to say the Greeks are determined to resist austerity

Wouldn't you if you already had your income cut by more than 40-50% already while our useless polititians got raises? You have to understand that most people here in Greece, know that we all had our share in our deficits, but only few bear the burden still, thus the riots.

And what would you do if aforementioned polititians did nothing for the best of your country? We have the strongest negotiation "card" in the world ATM. A Greek disorderly default could potentialy destroy the entire global economic system! Wouldn't you haggle more?

I'm not saying that we should blackmail the EU, but the measures could have been a bit smoother and fair overall. On  top of that, all of Europe tags us as useless, lazy and EU cancer!

Maybe a few months ago.  Everyones pretty much written in the probability of a greek default at this point.

All a disorderly default would do at this point is force greece out of the EU.

Switching it's debt into Drachmas... which would then be greatly devalued vs their debts in euros....

HUGELY raising their debt.

That's not true. Who in their right mind would buy / keep Portugese / Irish / Italian / Spanish bonds after a Greek default? People would start transfering money to other countries as well. The banks would simply not keep up.

What's one got to do with the other?

Just that greece is a totally irresponsible country unwilling to live up to it's debts doesn't mean other eurozone countries are that way.

Other countries willing to do their fair share austerity wise will be fine.


The problem with Greece defaulting was that they owed debt to banks in other countries, including other eurozone countries, and that foreign banks would be badly wounded or even collapse or need massive bailouts due to being overleveraged and not having enough captial on hand.

Since then said banks have been raising capital and a "firewall" has been built around greece with plenty of room for more of a firewall if need be.

Domino effect; If one country is allowed to default, Portugal and Ireland would be in the hotspot. And if you think austerity in the middle of recession has any chance of succeding, you couldn't be more wrong, both Greece and Portugal (and Ireland to an extent) prove that.

I feel like you don't know what the Domino Effect is....

because it was exactly what I listed above that has been prepaired against. 


It's not like Greece would be the first country to ever default on it's debt.  It wouldn't even be the first country in recent memory to default.  Afterall Iceland defaulted.

 

As for ireland... things are slowly improving... and portugal has been avoiding implementing austeirty.


Austerity ain't great... but it's better then the opposite... which is argueing that when debt collectors are beating down your door the best option is to take out more credit cards.

 

A couple years of belt tightening and slow times is heaven compaired to a default.

 

You can't expect to get out of such a ridiculious situation without taking a significant hit.  You can always blame the politicians, but really, as long as you live in a democracy... when you've got a problem that's fault has lasted over numerous elections... it's not really there fault is it?



Slimebeast on 12 February 2012
Troll_Whisperer said:
Slimebeast said:
Troll_Whisperer said:
mrstickball said:
'tis what happens when you have a rampant social welfare state without the economy to back it.

Hopefully they get their government spending and labor laws under control. Once they do that, I am sure they can make a strong recovery. BTW Troll_Whisperer, where did you move to once you left Spain?

I came to the UK when I was 18 to learn English, then decided to get my degree here and then I stayed longer just because I like it better here. I've never actually worked in Spain, but I've been working full-time for 6 years in the UK, even while I was studying full-time. I'm leaving soon though, I'm going to live in Japan with my fiancée in June or so.

And when was it that you began to rehabilitate trolls?

How come u liked it better in the UK than Spain? Just curious. If I was a spaniard I wouldn't leave Spain with such nice culture, landscapes and weather and stuff, including chicks.

Well, where I come from in Spain the weather is not that good, it rains much more than in London, though we also get many more sunny days. I like London because it is such a blend of cultures. This also has a lot of cons, but in here I've been able to meet many interesting people.

But mostly it's just a personal thing. I come from a working class family in Spain and my mum had no money to afford a flat so we were living with my grandma (after getting two degrees and a masters my mum finally got a good job and she's saving a lot now, but she works in Central America and has no flat in Spain). I lived in a quiet town in the suburbs of my city. I couldn't take that anymore, so I went for independence, and what can give me more independence from a previous life tha living abroad? The UK was the perfect choice because learning the language was an opportunity for me and obviously because, being European, I didn't need any paperwork to live and work. I came with 400 pounds with an Easyjet flight, and I'm happy of my decission. Now I am fluent in English, I have a degree in London, a lot of savings for someone my age, and a Japanese fiancée.

And now I'm ready to move on to something else. I guess I don't like doing the same thing for too long.

Interesting story! Why is your mom moved to S America of all places?

And how did u find a Japanese chick, and will she want to stay in Japan permanently when you two go there?