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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox 720 'will support Blu-ray, might not play used games' - report

S.T.A.G.E. on 26 January 2012
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Microsoft stated Blu Ray is a product that will be by passed and is not needed. Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead...it's how they will survive. Sony follows Nintendo and Microsoft follows Sony. This time I dont think it will happen, Microsoft will try and find something else on account of their stubbornness.

As for Microsoft always following Sony's lead, I think you're forgetting who made online gaming popular on consoles in the first place. Just as an example.

Microsoft failed with the Xbox because they came in with their own gameplan. They doubled their sales with the 360 because they used Sonys gameplan (which never changes). This caused Sonys marketshare to split. :)

I don't care about what Microsoft changed between the Xbox and the 360 right now (though I believe you're wrong in that regard as well). My issue is with a sentence like "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead" which is blatantly wrong and quite possibly trolling.


Microsoft said themselves that Blu Ray is dying . They obviously do not understand how much of an influence Sony has on the gaming industry. Sony's influence stablizes the price of Blu Ray systems outside of the console industry, thus making it easier for the average person to buy a Blu Ray player without paying $1000. They took the hit, just remember that. Microsofts influence on gaming is only online based, sony's is technological and first party multimedia and also deals with studio quality games and movies (remember they do own a movie house). Admit it...Microsoft was wrong and guess what? If Microsoft wants to....they can bend over....just like Apple did.



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Rainbird on 26 January 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Microsoft failed with the Xbox because they came in with their own gameplan. They doubled their sales with the 360 because they used Sonys gameplan (which never changes). This caused Sonys marketshare to split. :)

I don't care about what Microsoft changed between the Xbox and the 360 right now (though I believe you're wrong in that regard as well). My issue is with a sentence like "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead" which is blatantly wrong and quite possibly trolling.

Microsoft said themselves that Blu Ray is dying . They obviously do not understand how much of an influence Sony has on the gaming industry. Sony's influence stablizes the price of Blu Ray systems outside of the console industry, thus making it easier for the average person to buy a Blu Ray player without paying $1000. They took the hit, just remember that. Microsofts influence on gaming is only online based, sony's is technological and first party multimedia and also deals with studio quality games and movies (remember they do own a movie house). Admit it...Microsoft was wrong and guess what? If Microsoft wants to....they can bend over....just like Apple did.

I agree completely with the fact that Microsoft was wrong when they said bluray was dying. That's why I said "I doubt Microsoft would launch a new game console/media center that can't play blurays." in the first post I made in response to you.

My issue is with your statement "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead", which is still blatantly wrong and trollish.



S.T.A.G.E. on 26 January 2012
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Microsoft failed with the Xbox because they came in with their own gameplan. They doubled their sales with the 360 because they used Sonys gameplan (which never changes). This caused Sonys marketshare to split. :)

I don't care about what Microsoft changed between the Xbox and the 360 right now (though I believe you're wrong in that regard as well). My issue is with a sentence like "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead" which is blatantly wrong and quite possibly trolling.

Microsoft said themselves that Blu Ray is dying . They obviously do not understand how much of an influence Sony has on the gaming industry. Sony's influence stablizes the price of Blu Ray systems outside of the console industry, thus making it easier for the average person to buy a Blu Ray player without paying $1000. They took the hit, just remember that. Microsofts influence on gaming is only online based, sony's is technological and first party multimedia and also deals with studio quality games and movies (remember they do own a movie house). Admit it...Microsoft was wrong and guess what? If Microsoft wants to....they can bend over....just like Apple did.

I agree completely with the fact that Microsoft was wrong when they said bluray was dying. That's why I said "I doubt Microsoft would launch a new game console/media center that can't play blurays." in the first post I made in response to you.

My issue is with your statement "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead", which is still blatantly wrong and trollish.


Name certain things different and correct (this gen) outside of Xbox Live and launching early that Microsoft did write and we'll see if they dont attribute something to Sony.



GhaudePhaede010 on 26 January 2012

Digital downloading only? That is how you eliminate used game sales.



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d0nni3 on 26 January 2012
GhaudePhaede010 said:
Digital downloading only? That is how you eliminate used game sales.


And also damage your fan base the internet speeds of quite alot of the world just aren't consistent enough to allow this to be a viable option yet

although it's coming i agree and it's the logical end to this current attack on the used games market! Would love a trade system ala steam in there though



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Rainbird on 26 January 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:

I agree completely with the fact that Microsoft was wrong when they said bluray was dying. That's why I said "I doubt Microsoft would launch a new game console/media center that can't play blurays." in the first post I made in response to you.

My issue is with your statement "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead", which is still blatantly wrong and trollish.

Name certain things different and correct outside of Xbox Live that Microsoft did write and we'll see if they dont attribute something to Sony.

Alright, here are some:

There is the general philosophy behind their consoles. Before the Vita, Sony built all its consoles with the aim for them to be technological marvels. Microsoft's philosophy is to make it as easy as possible for developers to get good results. This is a difference that is very much highlighted by the PS3 and the 360. The Vita is built from the same philosophy as Microsoft's in fact, so if anything, Sony are the ones following Microsoft in that regard.

If I say Kinect, you will of course say that Sony had the Eye Toy, but Microsoft and Sony have used very different approaches. Kinect is fully integrated into 360, where the 360 interface is built to be controllable via Kinect just as easily as with a normal controller, not to mention all the voice command functionality of Kinect that is also built into the system. Nothing like that was ever done with Eye Toy and even the Move has just been tacked on to the XMB.

Microsoft were also the first to use a harddrive in their console, an approach Sony "copied" with the PS3.

Microsoft also bundled all 360s with a microphone so every 360 owner had the needed equipment for doing voice chat.

But please do tell me why Xbox Live doesn't count. Microsoft is by far the leader of the three when it comes to online service, where they were the first to bring these to consoles:

  • Achievements
  • Parties
  • Cross game voice chat
  • Digital movie delivery
  • Downloadable games
  • Beacons
So no, Microsoft definitely isn't just following Sony's lead.


Reasonable on 26 January 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Reasonable said:
On Blu-Ray I'm curious why people think it won't have it. I can't see any other alternative apart from going fully digital. My reasoning is:

1 - MS are committed to entertainment hub. This means, IMHO, that the next Xbox would still need to play physical entertainment media - which today means DVD and BR. Nintendo with Wii (and by the looks of it Wii U) used a proprietary format but this means the device cannot play DVDs, etc and is a closed environment - not good for a media hub at all. I doubt MS would want to cut themselves off from being able to play physical format films and BR is now a big enough segment they would be foolish to ignore it any longer IMHO.

2 - With increased power will, for AAA games, come higher resolution textures, game assets and content. In short - big AAA games on the next generation of Xbox will almost certainly be bigger than they are now. This means more storage space. If MS stick with DVD again they will be looking at a far higher percentage (probably) of multiple disk games. They need more space but, to point 1) above, I don't think they will take the Nintendo route of going proprietary on the disk format and losing ability to use DVD, BR, etc. playback - the obvious logical choice is BR disk format.

3 - MS need to grow outside US, UK, etc. That means markets that are less able to support a fully digital model, particularly for big games that could easily require a 25GB download. Therefore, unless MS want to commit fully to only highly developed internet infrastructure countries, MS will need physical media for at least one more gen. As per 1) and 2) above I believe this media would need to be larger than DVD but not proprietary to allow for full media hub message. To look at it another way - if the next Xbox was fully digital, then MS would be practically handing the rest of the world to Sony/Nintendo. Likely they would see reduction of marketshare from 360 in many territories. Fully digital to me seems like a very risky route for MS for a 2013/2014 timeframe.

4 - BR is going to be around for a while yet and right now the PS3 is arguably a better media center because it can offer exactly the same services as 360 - online/offline media playback, storage, etc. but it also supports the BR format which is becoming increasingly popular for purchase of latest films while 360 requires you to have a separate BR player which negates the idea of the 360 being your sole media hub. This gen it made sense for MS to not support BR and allow Sony to look expensive - next gen I believe MS will want parity on entertainment hub features (if not superiority) and not supporting the current high end format for physical media would negate that IMO.

To me it just seems the logical and competitive choice for MS to have BR. They have no interest in proprietary formats at all so far as I can see (unlike Nintendo) and they have every interest in growing globally, offering next gen gaming experiences and providing a one stop media/entertainment hub for the home. BR is the obvious choice and would not - despite what some think - line Sony's pockets or help Sony in gaming. MS using BR would be no different from Sony putting Windows on their PCs.

As for the used game stuff and smaller controller, that smells like bullshit. MS would surely know they could throw away their current leadership position in one fell swoop if they cut off used game sales/usage and they also know their controller size is preferred by much of their customer base.

I could see them maybe producing and using a slightly smaller controller in some territories where the 360 controller is seen as large, or having the option to buy a smaller controller, but not committing wholesale to a smaller controller.


Microsoft stated Blu Ray is a product that will be by passed and is not needed. Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead...it's how they will survive. Sony follows Nintendo and Microsoft follows Sony. This time I dont think it will happen, Microsoft will try and find something else on account of their stubbornness.


I did think of that - and they might do that.  But it just seems like a huge risk to me.

If the go digital only I see two big risks:

a) they are wrong and are left in a very weak position having to produce some sort of external bolt on physical media post launch - this would happen if it became obvious too much of the market still wants to buy physical media

b) they risk limiting themselves to only countries with sufficient bandwidth to download big games (imagine downloading FFXIII for example if you don't have much bandwidth - this would essentially cut off a big chunk of the worldwide market and essentially hand it to Sony/Nintendo

With their entertainment hub message I can't see them going proprietary as stated - that would incure a lot of development expensne and if they wanted their format to also play DVDs they would still have to licence it anyway.

Stuffing BR (which is now relatively cheap vs when PS3 launched) into the next Xbox just seems the easy, low risk option to me.  It doesn't stop them pushing digital more, it ticks a currently empty box in in their entertainment hub credentials and it actually removes a Sony differentiator - why buy a Playstation or standalone Sony (or other brand) BR player when your entertainment hub Xbox can play it all?

I think MS would prefer to go digital, but I think the economic crysis has pushed that back from being realizable, particularly in a lot of the more emerging markets.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

happydolphin on 27 January 2012
Reasonable said:

I did think of that - and they might do that.  But it just seems like a huge risk to me.

If the go digital only I see two big risks:

a) they are wrong and are left in a very weak position having to produce some sort of external bolt on physical media post launch - this would happen if it became obvious too much of the market still wants to buy physical media

b) they risk limiting themselves to only countries with sufficient bandwidth to download big games (imagine downloading FFXIII for example if you don't have much bandwidth - this would essentially cut off a big chunk of the worldwide market and essentially hand it to Sony/Nintendo

With their entertainment hub message I can't see them going proprietary as stated - that would incure a lot of development expensne and if they wanted their format to also play DVDs they would still have to licence it anyway.

Stuffing BR (which is now relatively cheap vs when PS3 launched) into the next Xbox just seems the easy, low risk option to me.  It doesn't stop them pushing digital more, it ticks a currently empty box in in their entertainment hub credentials and it actually removes a Sony differentiator - why buy a Playstation or standalone Sony (or other brand) BR player when your entertainment hub Xbox can play it all?

I think MS would prefer to go digital, but I think the economic crysis has pushed that back from being realizable, particularly in a lot of the more emerging markets.

I see digital-only getting introduced as a "slim" version of a console in the upcoming gen or two, kind of like the psp go.



S.T.A.G.E. on 27 January 2012
Rainbird said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Rainbird said:

I agree completely with the fact that Microsoft was wrong when they said bluray was dying. That's why I said "I doubt Microsoft would launch a new game console/media center that can't play blurays." in the first post I made in response to you.

My issue is with your statement "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead", which is still blatantly wrong and trollish.

Name certain things different and correct outside of Xbox Live that Microsoft did write and we'll see if they dont attribute something to Sony.

Alright, here are some:

There is the general philosophy behind their consoles. Before the Vita, Sony built all its consoles with the aim for them to be technological marvels. Microsoft's philosophy is to make it as easy as possible for developers to get good results. This is a difference that is very much highlighted by the PS3 and the 360. The Vita is built from the same philosophy as Microsoft's in fact, so if anything, Sony are the ones following Microsoft in that regard.

If I say Kinect, you will of course say that Sony had the Eye Toy, but Microsoft and Sony have used very different approaches. Kinect is fully integrated into 360, where the 360 interface is built to be controllable via Kinect just as easily as with a normal controller, not to mention all the voice command functionality of Kinect that is also built into the system. Nothing like that was ever done with Eye Toy and even the Move has just been tacked on to the XMB.

Microsoft were also the first to use a harddrive in their console, an approach Sony "copied" with the PS3.

Microsoft also bundled all 360s with a microphone so every 360 owner had the needed equipment for doing voice chat.

But please do tell me why Xbox Live doesn't count. Microsoft is by far the leader of the three when it comes to online service, where they were the first to bring these to consoles:

 

  • Achievements
  • Parties
  • Cross game voice chat
  • Digital movie delivery
  • Downloadable games
  • Beacons
So no, Microsoft definitely isn't just following Sony's lead.

 


As I said, take away Xbox Live because truthfully thats Microsofts ONLY strength. Everyones been trying to do online gaming but Microsoft SUCEEDED. Theres a difference because their main focus much like Windows is in OS and products with online capabilities. This is exactly what they helped Sega with.

1.Saw Sony was creating the ultimate home console and wanted in

2. copied Sonys ten year plan .

3. 2nd Console design reminiscent of the PS2 (especially in black)

4. Followed Sony's lead with the DVD format and thinks Sony will do it again but implements Blu Ray...Microsoft says "****! lets help out HD DVD".

5. Rushed the quality of their majority of their sold consoles to take a page out of Sonys book and endear themselves to third parties before Sony could introduce their dev kits.

6. Take great pride in collecting 3rd party titles synonymous with Sony and painting it as a victory and not shining light over great titles like the Witcher 2 which dont get enough press to the masses. Take last year for instance, they put Insomniacs new game up as if it was exclusive and had zero gameplay footage. Microsoft has always known Sony is synonymous with quality where games are concerned, and in order to be that way they must align themselves with those companies. The only difference is a lot of the third party titles they are now getting never rose to prominance with them outside of Gears.

Should I go on?



ImJustBayuum on 27 January 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:


As I said, take away Xbox Live because truthfully thats Microsofts ONLY strength. Everyones been trying to do online gaming but Microsoft SUCEEDED. Theres a difference because their main focus much like Windows is in OS and products with online capabilities. This is exactly what they helped Sega with.

1.Saw Sony was creating the ultimate home console and wanted in

2. copied Sonys ten year plan .

3. 2nd Console design reminiscent of the PS2 (especially in black)

4. Followed Sony's lead with the DVD format and thinks Sony will do it again but implements Blu Ray...Microsoft says "****! lets help out HD DVD".

5. Rushed the quality of their majority of their sold consoles to take a page out of Sonys book and endear themselves to third parties before Sony could introduce their dev kits.

6. Take great pride in collecting 3rd party titles synonymous with Sony and painting it as a victory and not shining light over great titles like the Witcher 2 which dont get enough press to the masses. Take last year for instance, they put Insomniacs new game up as if it was exclusive and had zero gameplay footage. Microsoft has always known Sony is synonymous with quality where games are concerned, and in order to be that way they must align themselves with those companies. The only difference is a lot of the third party titles they are now getting never rose to prominance with them outside of Gears.

Should I go on?

1. OR they saw an opportunity to diversify their business. (nobody knows except MS themselves the reason they entered the market)

2. The market dictates this. Naturally all tech firms will want their product to continue selling as long as they can (or until costs exceeds the benefits).

3. Agree

4. huh...doesnt this counter your point. MS didnt follow Sony here (this gen that is)

5. "Rushing to be the first to the market" is a strategy employed by many organisations waaay before the PS1.

6. How is this following Sony's lead. Last time I check these are third party titles and credits goes to them and them only, irrespective of the hardware that it was previously on.