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Forums - Sales - Was MS Wrong When They Claimed The #1 Spot For HW Sales WW?

 

Which Option Do You Think Is More Accurate?

The PS3/360 Is Over/Undertracked In EU. 135 23.48%
 
Ballmer Was Including A Few Jan Shipments. 67 11.65%
 
MS Stuffed The Channels. 246 42.78%
 
IT'S 2012! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! 123 21.39%
 
Total:571
cookingyourmama on 04 February 2012
Shinobi-san said:
cookingyourmama said:

You are allowed to think whatever you want to think, that is your prerogative, however when you base something not on facts but just a 'gut feeling' then people have the right to show you that your 'gut feeling' is probably wrong with facts.


Wait let me get this straight..you think you have enough evidence, facts, data to conclusively say that PS3 outsold 360 to consumers right?

Based on what youve been saying so far id say thats what you are implying.

My own opinion on the matter is that given everything we know, its to close to call. Leaving some room for some gut feeling, my gut says the 360 took it.

You realise you are talking in absolutes with sales estimations right? And given how close everything is id say thats a pretty stupid thing to do at this point.

il leave my argument there take from it what you will. Personally i think you way to hung up on 360 vs ps3 fans etc. If you followed my posting history or even took note of things i say in general you would probably see that im a reasonable poster with a slight ps3 bias maybe. So i really dont see where all that stuff about 360 fans came from. Saying things like that just makes me think you have some sort of agenda while discussing a topic like this, which is perhaps why im exiting out of this. When someone becomes so caught up in their opinions its hard to have any form of mutual discussion. Re-read my initial post (and i dont mean that in a rude way) and then read your response. Then tell me if you think it was an appropriate reply.

What i am saying is, given all the evidence we have i am as sure you can be that the ps3 outsold the 360. It's already a fact that in Q1 of this year Microsoft shipped a million more than they normally do due to undershipping the previous quarter and adding up every single independent sales tracker as well as using Nintendo's estimates for global sales, none of that data shows the 360 selling anywhere near the amount they shipped.

For Microsoft to have outsold Sony then most of Vgchartz, NPD, Media-Create, Famitsu, GFK & Nintendo's global data has to be wrong as well as the 360 for no good reason doing phenomenally well in random countries like Asia etc. where they have never sold phenomenally well before.

It's just so unlikely it's borderline impossible.



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sales2099 on 04 February 2012
cookingyourmama said:
sales2099 said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
sales2099 said:
pezus said:
zhao3gold said:
Seece said:
zhao3gold said:
After all the figures coming out from the FY reports, I think MS is correct to claim they are the #1. From the manufacturers' point of view, the sales are from the shipment. So when MS knew they have shipped more consoles than its competitors in a year, what's wrong for them to claim the #1 spot in hardware sales?

XBOX360 won 2011, just accept it.

Eh, unfortunately have to correct you. It was MS that stated sold to consumer as their target not shipments.

I think even if MS overshipment issues are overblown, their stock on shelves is at least on par with PS3 putting them at a 200k~ gap.

But in most of cases, the manufacturers will not talk about sell through figures because no one can have the exact data from the global market. I think everyone here know the manufacturers call "shipment" as "sales". So I do believe when MS talk about "sales", it means the "shipment" of XBOX360.

I don't deny there is a chance that MS overshipped 360 in Q4. But we are here to talk about 2011, aren't we? So if the cumulative of 360 shipment is more than PS3, it will mean 360 won the CY 2011. The negatvie effect of possible overshipment will be discussed in the topic like "who will win 2012", but not in "who will win 2011".

MS specifically and repeatedly stated sold to consumers, don't move the goalpost now

If thats the only anti 360 spin left here, then its even more assured 360 won. 

I seriously doubt that the official 800k shipped gap between 360 and PS3 is in favour of PS3 when taking into account sold through. Gap is too big. 

But either way, the PS3 camp is clinging to speculation and personal hopes and dreams (lol)...where as these shipped figures are dealing in facts. 

Sorry to specific address you, but everyone who keeps bringing up hopes that PS3 won with actual sell through is just digging a deeper hole of sensitivity, proving that theres a little fanboy in all of us 


 I love how biased you are to Xbox 360. I just love it. (In a good way)

 

But I wouldnt put too much money on these "confirmed facts" because of the Q1 2012 report. Theres a possibility that MS overshipped. And IF they did, and I said IF....IF they did overship X360. 

 

YOU WILL BE REDICULED. 

 

Mark my words. <>_<>

Well thats due in mid april. So thats 2 and a half months of being unquestionably right :D

And im used to being ridiculed. My Youtube identity can attest to that. Trick is that as long as MS is profitable, 360 remains 2nd place, and I get my Halo/Gears/Forza fix.....nothing effects me!

Eh yeah, i hate to burst your bubble but Microsoft already lost. They overshipped in the first quarter of 2011 by around a million because they messed up and undershipped during the last quarter of 2010.

Even if by some miracle when the next quarterly report comes in and it doesn't show that Microsoft overshipped in the last quarter of 2012 as well (which is pretty much impossible given all the independent sales trackers show that microsoft overshipped Oct-Dec) then it doesn't matter anyway because Microsoft overshipped during the first quarter of 2011 and that wipes out any 'lead' they had if you think those shipped numbers = real sales to consumers in 2011.

The simple facts are:

Microsoft shipped more than Sony during 2011 due to overshipping in two quarters.

All the official sales data from independent sales trackers point to Sony selling more to consumers then Microsoft did during 2011.

1. Microsoft Profit as a whole company: 6.62 Billion
2. Xbox Division Profit: 528 Million
3. 360 shipments: 8.2 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.9m 360 Shipped, YOY increase from 2010. 
5. Lifetime 360 Shipments = 65.8 Million


1. Sony Profit as a whole company: 2.038 Billion LOSS
2. PS Division Profit: 1.1 billion LOSS
3. PS3 Shipments: 6.5 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.1m PS3 Shipped, YOY decrease from 2010. 
5. Lifetime PS3 Shipments - 62 Million

With facts like this the bolded sentence you wrote sounds extremely stupid. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

MaulerX on 04 February 2012

Wild card that nobody mentioned: Nokia Lumia 800

Nokia announced that they shipped /sold over one million devices in Europe and we all know how well its doing in that region. As part of it's launch, many carriers had the promo of buy the Lumia 800 and guess what? Get a 360 for free. In fact, that is the same promo they just announced in South Africa.

These were real 360's that got into peoples hands and I'm sure it wasn't tracked by this site. It is why I believe the 360 did outsell the PS3.



sales2099 on 04 February 2012
amaral_slb said:
Hey zhao, keep thinking that the 360 won 2011, it will happen, even if not in reality it will still be the winner in your head.

Pathetic how we are in a site that tracks consoles sold to consumer, and we still hear defensive people saying: "Well what matters for the companies is shipped numbers so technically 360 won..."

Discussion about console sales are never about shipped in this site, it is always about using shipped numbers to understand if we are correctly tracking console sales.

At this point in the game, everything points for the PS3 to be the best sold to consumer (for the defensive) home console of 2011

When next Q numbers come we will be 100% sure of who won by how much, but to come in here RIGHT NOW, and say with a straight face that the 360 won, is setting yourself to look like a fool in the end. You can win, but if you play poker you understand how much of an underdog you are considering the numbers we have.

And continue with the biased talk to whichever console you love to death, it´s pure entertainment how much someone prefers do defend a console instead of playing games with it.

1. Microsoft Profit as a whole company: 6.62 Billion
2. Xbox Division Profit: 528 Million
3. 360 shipments: 8.2 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.9m 360 Shipped, YOY increase from 2010. 
5. Lifetime 360 Shipments = 65.8 Million


1. Sony Profit as a whole company: 2.038 Billion LOSS
2. PS Division Profit: 1.1 billion LOSS
3. PS3 Shipments: 6.5 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.1m PS3 Shipped, YOY decrease from 2010. 
5. Lifetime PS3 Shipments - 62 Million

By all accounts, 360 did win 2011.

Do you really think that our notions of winning (which seems to be sold to consumer) actually mean anything? 

Corporate victory is measured by shipped. I personally go by shipped and I am the 360 fan authority here :P. Seems this is just grasping at straws to salvage the year for PS3. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

MaulerX on 04 February 2012

Wild card that nobody mentioned: Nokia Lumia 800

Nokia announced that they shipped /sold over one million devices in Europe and we all know how well its doing in that region. As part of it's launch, many carriers had the promo of buy the Lumia 800 and guess what? Get a 360 for free. In fact, that is the same promo they just announced in South Africa.

These were real 360's that got into peoples hands and I'm sure it wasn't tracked by this site. It is why I believe the 360 did outsell the PS3.



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sales2099 on 04 February 2012
cookingyourmama said:
ZaneWane said:
why is that xbox selling most console in 2011 is making people mad

Because it didn't. People saying Microsoft 'sold' more & moving the goal posts from sold to shipped is what is annoying ps3 fans.

Fixed. 

Seems the only people who do care are PS3 loyal. Nintendo fans dont care. 360 fans dont mind going by shipped. The only camp that is sensitive seems to have a PS3 bias. 

Personally this all stems from PS3 being last place. PS1/PS2 was on top and now PS3 is last and struggling to take 2nd. The fans are used to being #1 so whenever theres real facts that prove just how far the brand has fallen....they fight and spin and complain until they are convinced the PS3 ir performing like how the PS2 did. 

This might be out there, but I feel its the root of all this sensitivity. I can assure you the 360 camp doesn't mind this one bit. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

cookingyourmama on 04 February 2012
sales2099 said:
cookingyourmama said:
sales2099 said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
sales2099 said:
pezus said:
zhao3gold said:
Seece said:
zhao3gold said:
After all the figures coming out from the FY reports, I think MS is correct to claim they are the #1. From the manufacturers' point of view, the sales are from the shipment. So when MS knew they have shipped more consoles than its competitors in a year, what's wrong for them to claim the #1 spot in hardware sales?

XBOX360 won 2011, just accept it.

Eh, unfortunately have to correct you. It was MS that stated sold to consumer as their target not shipments.

I think even if MS overshipment issues are overblown, their stock on shelves is at least on par with PS3 putting them at a 200k~ gap.

But in most of cases, the manufacturers will not talk about sell through figures because no one can have the exact data from the global market. I think everyone here know the manufacturers call "shipment" as "sales". So I do believe when MS talk about "sales", it means the "shipment" of XBOX360.

I don't deny there is a chance that MS overshipped 360 in Q4. But we are here to talk about 2011, aren't we? So if the cumulative of 360 shipment is more than PS3, it will mean 360 won the CY 2011. The negatvie effect of possible overshipment will be discussed in the topic like "who will win 2012", but not in "who will win 2011".

MS specifically and repeatedly stated sold to consumers, don't move the goalpost now

If thats the only anti 360 spin left here, then its even more assured 360 won. 

I seriously doubt that the official 800k shipped gap between 360 and PS3 is in favour of PS3 when taking into account sold through. Gap is too big. 

But either way, the PS3 camp is clinging to speculation and personal hopes and dreams (lol)...where as these shipped figures are dealing in facts. 

Sorry to specific address you, but everyone who keeps bringing up hopes that PS3 won with actual sell through is just digging a deeper hole of sensitivity, proving that theres a little fanboy in all of us 


 I love how biased you are to Xbox 360. I just love it. (In a good way)

 

But I wouldnt put too much money on these "confirmed facts" because of the Q1 2012 report. Theres a possibility that MS overshipped. And IF they did, and I said IF....IF they did overship X360. 

 

YOU WILL BE REDICULED. 

 

Mark my words. <>_<>

Well thats due in mid april. So thats 2 and a half months of being unquestionably right :D

And im used to being ridiculed. My Youtube identity can attest to that. Trick is that as long as MS is profitable, 360 remains 2nd place, and I get my Halo/Gears/Forza fix.....nothing effects me!

Eh yeah, i hate to burst your bubble but Microsoft already lost. They overshipped in the first quarter of 2011 by around a million because they messed up and undershipped during the last quarter of 2010.

Even if by some miracle when the next quarterly report comes in and it doesn't show that Microsoft overshipped in the last quarter of 2012 as well (which is pretty much impossible given all the independent sales trackers show that microsoft overshipped Oct-Dec) then it doesn't matter anyway because Microsoft overshipped during the first quarter of 2011 and that wipes out any 'lead' they had if you think those shipped numbers = real sales to consumers in 2011.

The simple facts are:

Microsoft shipped more than Sony during 2011 due to overshipping in two quarters.

All the official sales data from independent sales trackers point to Sony selling more to consumers then Microsoft did during 2011.

1. Microsoft Profit as a whole company: 6.62 Billion
2. Xbox Division Profit: 528 Million
3. 360 shipments: 8.2 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.9m 360 Shipped, YOY increase from 2010. 
5. Lifetime 360 Shipments = 65.8 Million


1. Sony Profit as a whole company: 2.038 Billion LOSS
2. PS Division Profit: 1.1 billion LOSS
3. PS3 Shipments: 6.5 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.1m PS3 Shipped, YOY decrease from 2010. 
5. Lifetime PS3 Shipments - 62 Million

With facts like this the bolded sentence you wrote sounds extremely stupid. 

 

Not at all, this is a website about actual sales, not profits or shipments. In 2011 Sony sold more than Microsoft, Microsoft shipped more due to overshipping. Keep trying.



sales2099 on 04 February 2012
cookingyourmama said:
sales2099 said:
cookingyourmama said:
sales2099 said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
sales2099 said:
pezus said:
zhao3gold said:
Seece said:
zhao3gold said:
After all the figures coming out from the FY reports, I think MS is correct to claim they are the #1. From the manufacturers' point of view, the sales are from the shipment. So when MS knew they have shipped more consoles than its competitors in a year, what's wrong for them to claim the #1 spot in hardware sales?

XBOX360 won 2011, just accept it.

Eh, unfortunately have to correct you. It was MS that stated sold to consumer as their target not shipments.

I think even if MS overshipment issues are overblown, their stock on shelves is at least on par with PS3 putting them at a 200k~ gap.

But in most of cases, the manufacturers will not talk about sell through figures because no one can have the exact data from the global market. I think everyone here know the manufacturers call "shipment" as "sales". So I do believe when MS talk about "sales", it means the "shipment" of XBOX360.

I don't deny there is a chance that MS overshipped 360 in Q4. But we are here to talk about 2011, aren't we? So if the cumulative of 360 shipment is more than PS3, it will mean 360 won the CY 2011. The negatvie effect of possible overshipment will be discussed in the topic like "who will win 2012", but not in "who will win 2011".

MS specifically and repeatedly stated sold to consumers, don't move the goalpost now

If thats the only anti 360 spin left here, then its even more assured 360 won. 

I seriously doubt that the official 800k shipped gap between 360 and PS3 is in favour of PS3 when taking into account sold through. Gap is too big. 

But either way, the PS3 camp is clinging to speculation and personal hopes and dreams (lol)...where as these shipped figures are dealing in facts. 

Sorry to specific address you, but everyone who keeps bringing up hopes that PS3 won with actual sell through is just digging a deeper hole of sensitivity, proving that theres a little fanboy in all of us 


 I love how biased you are to Xbox 360. I just love it. (In a good way)

 

But I wouldnt put too much money on these "confirmed facts" because of the Q1 2012 report. Theres a possibility that MS overshipped. And IF they did, and I said IF....IF they did overship X360. 

 

YOU WILL BE REDICULED. 

 

Mark my words. <>_<>

Well thats due in mid april. So thats 2 and a half months of being unquestionably right :D

And im used to being ridiculed. My Youtube identity can attest to that. Trick is that as long as MS is profitable, 360 remains 2nd place, and I get my Halo/Gears/Forza fix.....nothing effects me!

Eh yeah, i hate to burst your bubble but Microsoft already lost. They overshipped in the first quarter of 2011 by around a million because they messed up and undershipped during the last quarter of 2010.

Even if by some miracle when the next quarterly report comes in and it doesn't show that Microsoft overshipped in the last quarter of 2012 as well (which is pretty much impossible given all the independent sales trackers show that microsoft overshipped Oct-Dec) then it doesn't matter anyway because Microsoft overshipped during the first quarter of 2011 and that wipes out any 'lead' they had if you think those shipped numbers = real sales to consumers in 2011.

The simple facts are:

Microsoft shipped more than Sony during 2011 due to overshipping in two quarters.

All the official sales data from independent sales trackers point to Sony selling more to consumers then Microsoft did during 2011.

1. Microsoft Profit as a whole company: 6.62 Billion
2. Xbox Division Profit: 528 Million
3. 360 shipments: 8.2 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.9m 360 Shipped, YOY increase from 2010. 
5. Lifetime 360 Shipments = 65.8 Million


1. Sony Profit as a whole company: 2.038 Billion LOSS
2. PS Division Profit: 1.1 billion LOSS
3. PS3 Shipments: 6.5 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.1m PS3 Shipped, YOY decrease from 2010. 
5. Lifetime PS3 Shipments - 62 Million

With facts like this the bolded sentence you wrote sounds extremely stupid. 

 

Not at all, this is a website about actual sales, not profits or shipments. In 2011 Sony sold more than Microsoft, Microsoft shipped more due to overshipping. Keep trying.

The magic of spin, even in utter defeat. Classic PS3 fan spin: if you cant argue it....ignore it lol. Ignore how MS just outperformed Sony on every level this year. 

Best part is, you can't prove that bolded statement. Its all spin and personal hopes and dreams lol. 

So until u CAN prove it, MS won. 

Since PS3 fans are saying that MS overshipped oct-dec with NO REAL PROOF. Let me say the same thing. I am announcing here and now that Sony overshipped PS3s in oct-dec as well. I have no proof of this, but that isnt stopping PS3 gamers from saying that about MS :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

cookingyourmama on 04 February 2012
sales2099 said:
cookingyourmama said:
ZaneWane said:
why is that xbox selling most console in 2011 is making people mad

Because it didn't. People saying Microsoft 'sold' more & moving the goal posts from sold to shipped is what is annoying ps3 fans.

Fixed. 

Seems the only people who do care are PS3 loyal. Nintendo fans dont care. 360 fans dont mind going by shipped. The only camp that is sensitive seems to have a PS3 bias. 

Personally this all stems from PS3 being last place. PS1/PS2 was on top and now PS3 is last and struggling to take 2nd. The fans are used to being #1 so whenever theres real facts that prove just how far the brand has fallen....they fight and spin and complain until they are convinced the PS3 ir performing like how the PS2 did. 

This might be out there, but I feel its the root of all this sensitivity. I can assure you the 360 camp doesn't mind this one bit. 

That's why i constantly see massive MS cheerleaders like you in nearly every single 360 vs ps3 2011 sales thread kicking up a fuss, acting in denial and only going by the numbers that suit the 360 best, pot calling kettle black.

It's as simple as this, this is a website that deals in ACTUAL SOLD TO CONSUMER NUMBERS NOT SHIPPED. Earlier in the year Microsoft claimed they would sell the most to consumers NOT SHIP THE MOST TO RETAILERS. Microsoft lost & because they lost now we have a situation where 360 fans constantly post and try to shift focus away from Microsoft losing their bet by bragging about profits and shipment numbers (whilst also being in denial that Microsoft overshipped).



cookingyourmama on 04 February 2012
sales2099 said:
cookingyourmama said:
sales2099 said:
cookingyourmama said:
sales2099 said:
Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 said:
sales2099 said:
pezus said:
zhao3gold said:
Seece said:
zhao3gold said:
After all the figures coming out from the FY reports, I think MS is correct to claim they are the #1. From the manufacturers' point of view, the sales are from the shipment. So when MS knew they have shipped more consoles than its competitors in a year, what's wrong for them to claim the #1 spot in hardware sales?

XBOX360 won 2011, just accept it.

Eh, unfortunately have to correct you. It was MS that stated sold to consumer as their target not shipments.

I think even if MS overshipment issues are overblown, their stock on shelves is at least on par with PS3 putting them at a 200k~ gap.

But in most of cases, the manufacturers will not talk about sell through figures because no one can have the exact data from the global market. I think everyone here know the manufacturers call "shipment" as "sales". So I do believe when MS talk about "sales", it means the "shipment" of XBOX360.

I don't deny there is a chance that MS overshipped 360 in Q4. But we are here to talk about 2011, aren't we? So if the cumulative of 360 shipment is more than PS3, it will mean 360 won the CY 2011. The negatvie effect of possible overshipment will be discussed in the topic like "who will win 2012", but not in "who will win 2011".

MS specifically and repeatedly stated sold to consumers, don't move the goalpost now

If thats the only anti 360 spin left here, then its even more assured 360 won. 

I seriously doubt that the official 800k shipped gap between 360 and PS3 is in favour of PS3 when taking into account sold through. Gap is too big. 

But either way, the PS3 camp is clinging to speculation and personal hopes and dreams (lol)...where as these shipped figures are dealing in facts. 

Sorry to specific address you, but everyone who keeps bringing up hopes that PS3 won with actual sell through is just digging a deeper hole of sensitivity, proving that theres a little fanboy in all of us 


 I love how biased you are to Xbox 360. I just love it. (In a good way)

 

But I wouldnt put too much money on these "confirmed facts" because of the Q1 2012 report. Theres a possibility that MS overshipped. And IF they did, and I said IF....IF they did overship X360. 

 

YOU WILL BE REDICULED. 

 

Mark my words. <>_<>

Well thats due in mid april. So thats 2 and a half months of being unquestionably right :D

And im used to being ridiculed. My Youtube identity can attest to that. Trick is that as long as MS is profitable, 360 remains 2nd place, and I get my Halo/Gears/Forza fix.....nothing effects me!

Eh yeah, i hate to burst your bubble but Microsoft already lost. They overshipped in the first quarter of 2011 by around a million because they messed up and undershipped during the last quarter of 2010.

Even if by some miracle when the next quarterly report comes in and it doesn't show that Microsoft overshipped in the last quarter of 2012 as well (which is pretty much impossible given all the independent sales trackers show that microsoft overshipped Oct-Dec) then it doesn't matter anyway because Microsoft overshipped during the first quarter of 2011 and that wipes out any 'lead' they had if you think those shipped numbers = real sales to consumers in 2011.

The simple facts are:

Microsoft shipped more than Sony during 2011 due to overshipping in two quarters.

All the official sales data from independent sales trackers point to Sony selling more to consumers then Microsoft did during 2011.

1. Microsoft Profit as a whole company: 6.62 Billion
2. Xbox Division Profit: 528 Million
3. 360 shipments: 8.2 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.9m 360 Shipped, YOY increase from 2010. 
5. Lifetime 360 Shipments = 65.8 Million


1. Sony Profit as a whole company: 2.038 Billion LOSS
2. PS Division Profit: 1.1 billion LOSS
3. PS3 Shipments: 6.5 million
4. January to December 2011 - 14.1m PS3 Shipped, YOY decrease from 2010. 
5. Lifetime PS3 Shipments - 62 Million

With facts like this the bolded sentence you wrote sounds extremely stupid. 

 

Not at all, this is a website about actual sales, not profits or shipments. In 2011 Sony sold more than Microsoft, Microsoft shipped more due to overshipping. Keep trying.

The magic of spin, even in utter defeat. Classic PS3 fan spin: if you cant argue it....ignore it lol. Ignore how MS just outperformed Sony on every level this year. 

Best part is, you can't prove that bolded statement. Its all spin and personal hopes and dreams lol. 

So until u CAN prove it, MS won. 

Since PS3 fans are saying that MS overshipped oct-dec with NO REAL PROOF. Let me say the same thing. I am announcing here and now that Sony overshipped PS3s in oct-dec as well. I have no proof of this, but that isnt stopping PS3 gamers from saying that about MS :)

No i HAVE already proved that Microsoft overshipped in the January-March 2011 quarter, just look back a few pages, it's there in black and white. I don't even need to wait for the next shipment data which will show even more overshipping in October-December by Microsoft as well. Keep trying.