Anybody who actually thinks Microsoft outsold Sony in 2011 either doesn't understand the numbers or is a fanboy. I and others have laid out the facts plain and simple for everybody to see but if people want to delude themselves and pretend Microsoft outsold Sony instead of just outshipping them then go ahead, knock yourself out with delusion, but acting like the 'Sony fans' are the deluded ones and clinging on to 'nothing sales data' is the pot calling the kettle black.

Shinobi-san said: cookingyourmama said: Shinobi-san said: Strange situation we find ourselves in..i believe a first in this generation too, where one manufacturer out shipped all the competition by almost a million yet there's a dispute over whether or not they sold through more. I just don't see it happening though, 360 out shipped PS3 by ~800k that is not a small number in any sense, i can't see how they shipped that much more yet did not sell through as much? Despite the evidence that suggests that is indeed the case, I'm gonna go with my gut and give the win to 360 for sold through sales. lets face it, there's a higher % chance of companies that estimate sales being off by a few 100k than their is of PS3 outselling the 360 despite a 800k gap in shipment figures. Logic tells me to go with the former. Not to mention some regions aren't even tracked, 360 could have had increased sales in those regions. Ironically, had the roles been reversed, i think many of you guys would be arguing the exact opposite to what you are currently arguing for or against Right, i'm going to break this down for you & everybody else who is having trouble understanding how shipping & the retail channel work because i can see that a lot of people just don't understand the numbers. Because we don't have Jan-March 2012 fiscal numbers yet we can't show to what extent Microsoft overshipped during the previous quarter of Oct-Dec 2011, however we do have Oct-Dec 2010 & Jan-March 2011's numbers to use as an example of microsoft overshipping in a quarter this year. When companies sell products not only do they need to ship enough to sell to consumers, they also need to ship enough to have a healthy supply chain of consoles on shelves, in warehouses & in transit. During the quarter of Oct-Dec 2010 Microsoft shipped 6.3 million consoles, yet using Vgchartz numbers you can see that for that quarter they actually sold 6.89 million consoles. Between retail & Microsoft they underestimated how many consoles they would sell & ended up undershipping for that quarter. When this happened there were shortages at the end of the year & the normal amount of consoles that should have been in the retail chain became depleted. To make up for undershipping in the Oct-Dec 2010 quarter Microsoft now had to overship in the Jan-March 2011 quarter to make up for this. Normally for the Jan-March quarter Microsoft ships between 1.3-1.7 million consoles as shown in there fiscal statements............. in Jan-March 2011 they shipped 2.7 million consoles instead. There was no price cut for the 360 in Jan-March, there were no special offers, there were no mega blockbuster console selling exclusives released for the console either so why did the xbox360 go from shipping its normal 1.3-1.7 million consoles to 2.7 million consoles in that quarter??? The answer is simple, Microsoft had to overship to make up for undershipping the previous quarter. And to further back up the overshipping of Jan-March 2011 you only have to look at the next few quarters of Microsoft's 2011 sales and compare them 2010's sales. If by some magic the xbox360 for no apparent reason suddenly became significantly more popular in Jan-March 2011, then this trend in sales should continue over the following months then right?........ From April-Sep 2011 Mircosoft shipped 4 million consoles, however from April-Sep 2010 Mircosoft shipped 4.3 million consoles. How does it make any sense that worldwide the xbox360 during Jan-March 2011 became significantly more popular by almost double compared to what it sold in Jan-March 2010 to then go on to sell less during April-Sep 2011 compared to April-Sep 2010? The answer is it doesn't make any logical sense and yet again confirms that Microsoft overshipped during Jan-March 2011. Regardless of wether Microsoft overshipped in Oct-Dec 2011 it is already a fact that they overshipped in Jan-March 2011. wow. First of all not once did i say MS did not overship. Second read what i wrote in my initial post which came immediately after the bit you bolded: "DESPITE the evidence that suggests that is indeed the case, I'm gonna go with my GUT and give the win to 360 for sold through sales." Thirdly I very seldom ever have trouble understanding anything, but hey thanx for assuming im an idiot.

If you agree that Microsoft overshipped and you understood all the numbers then you would not be saying that the 360 outsold the ps3.

Sigh, Microsoft haven't sold 65.8 million consoles to consumers, that's the shipped number.

Eh, yeah like the other poster said, not sure if serious??! Those are shipped numbers, not sold.

I was only kidding about the attack thing, although it doesnt help when he says things like "Right, i'm going to break this down for you & everybody else who is having trouble understanding how shipping & the retail channel work because i can see that a lot of people just don't understand the numbers."

Most people here, especially members who have been here long enough, have a general understanding of how shipping works. And to put things at its simplest...A company ships x amount of product y while only sells z of x. Its a basic premise and its not really that hard to get. And being here on a sales site all the other data that is needed to form some sort of opinion is right there for us to use.

So for him to claim that people dont understand the numbers just because they think 360 outsold ps3 can indeed be seen as an attack (he even went as far as to say you are a fanboy if you do think this). Because as far as im concerned there really isnt enough evidence to come to a conclusive finding. Which funny enough is exactly what he is doing despite hes greater understanding of retail shipping and sales.

You dont seem to be reading properly what i wrote.

I said most evidence suggests that the ps3 took the victory, however think its a close call on who outsold who...and in such cases i believe its okay to go with a gut feeling...and my gut feeling, something which isnt fact at all, says 360 outsold ps3. You literally cant take my gut feeling away from me okay? do you get that genius?  So next time you decide to reply to a post make sure you read it properly and understand what the person is saying.

Constantly when i come into threads about 360 vs ps3 in 2011 all i see now is post after post from people trying to claim that this website is biased towards Sony or that the majority of posters here are Sony fanboys who are 'deluded' & it's only this combined effort of fanboy delusion that keeps the numbers on this site the way they are 'in favour of Sony & the ps3'. It's a complete joke, all the sales data points towards Microsoft overshipping & Sony selling more to consumers for the year but fans of the 360 don't want to hear it.

*sigh*

again you are replying to the wrong post, not sure what any of that has got to do with me. Unless im one of the 360 fans your talking about in which case i laugh at you loudly. 

You are allowed to think whatever you want to think, that is your prerogative, however when you base something not on facts but just a 'gut feeling' then people have the right to show you that your 'gut feeling' is probably wrong with facts.

Wait let me get this straight..you think you have enough evidence, facts, data to conclusively say that PS3 outsold 360 to consumers right?

Based on what youve been saying so far id say thats what you are implying.

My own opinion on the matter is that given everything we know, its to close to call. Leaving some room for some gut feeling, my gut says the 360 took it.

You realise you are talking in absolutes with sales estimations right? And given how close everything is id say thats a pretty stupid thing to do at this point.

il leave my argument there take from it what you will. Personally i think you way to hung up on 360 vs ps3 fans etc. If you followed my posting history or even took note of things i say in general you would probably see that im a reasonable poster with a slight ps3 bias maybe. So i really dont see where all that stuff about 360 fans came from. Saying things like that just makes me think you have some sort of agenda while discussing a topic like this, which is perhaps why im exiting out of this. When someone becomes so caught up in their opinions its hard to have any form of mutual discussion. Re-read my initial post (and i dont mean that in a rude way) and then read your response. Then tell me if you think it was an appropriate reply.