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Forums - Sales - Was MS Wrong When They Claimed The #1 Spot For HW Sales WW?

 

Which Option Do You Think Is More Accurate?

The PS3/360 Is Over/Undertracked In EU. 135 23.48%
 
Ballmer Was Including A Few Jan Shipments. 67 11.65%
 
MS Stuffed The Channels. 246 42.78%
 
IT'S 2012! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! 123 21.39%
 
Total:571
SOLIDSNAKE08 said:

the 360 outselling the ps3 in europe is as unlikely as the ps3 having come out on top last NPD. we just knew 360 sold more just like how we know ps3 sold more in europe.

This response is directed at JimmyDanger, too.

Very true.  In just 2 weeks we should have EU numbers from Nintendo.  If that shows that on VGC the 360 and PS3 are spot on or over/undertracked by too little to matter, regardless of MS shipped numbers, this should be the end of the discussion.  I say that because the US, EU, and Japan are the largest regions for gaming.  All other regions combined made up under 2 million of 360's sales (13.38 million) for the entire year in 2010. 

I say its the end of the discussion, but I'm sure some people will be still be posting how 2.x million consoles on shelves is just too much, while completely ignoring the obvious miscalculation in demand because of Nov numbers.



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thismeintiel said:
SOLIDSNAKE08 said:

the 360 outselling the ps3 in europe is as unlikely as the ps3 having come out on top last NPD. we just knew 360 sold more just like how we know ps3 sold more in europe.

This response is directed at JimmyDanger, too.

Very true.  In just 2 weeks we should have EU numbers from Nintendo.  If that shows that on VGC the 360 and PS3 are spot on or over/undertracked by too little to matter, regardless of MS shipped numbers, this should be the end of the discussion.  I say that because the US, EU, and Japan are the largest regions for gaming.  All other regions combined made up under 2 million of 360's sales (13.38 million) for the entire year in 2010. 

I say its the end of the discussion, but I'm sure some people will be still be posting how 2.x million consoles on shelves is just too much, while completely ignoring the obvious miscalculation in demand because of Nov numbers.


Theres stil some things that cannot be explained though, like the fact that MS announced it was +66 mil sold to consumers, not shipped. And since everyone is waiting for Nintendo's numbers, why are we not believing MS? The fact that they sold through +66 mil would imply that shipments is indeed above that something like a high 66mil (66.7, 66.8, 66.9) and thats only if the given 66mil was a low 66. If its a high 66 sold through then shipments could well be over 67mil and possible a high 67 since according to most here +1.5mil on shelves isnt out of the question.

Another point that hasnt been entirelt refuted is the fact that shipments dont occur in one specific time, but are frequent occurences throughout the month, which makes it hard for them to overship to the US.

Initially i was thinking along similar scenarios as you and others have pointed out. But in light of these facts things remain a mystery, and i think its premature to call it a day and claim end of discussion.



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Shinobi-san said:
thismeintiel said:
SOLIDSNAKE08 said:

the 360 outselling the ps3 in europe is as unlikely as the ps3 having come out on top last NPD. we just knew 360 sold more just like how we know ps3 sold more in europe.

This response is directed at JimmyDanger, too.

Very true.  In just 2 weeks we should have EU numbers from Nintendo.  If that shows that on VGC the 360 and PS3 are spot on or over/undertracked by too little to matter, regardless of MS shipped numbers, this should be the end of the discussion.  I say that because the US, EU, and Japan are the largest regions for gaming.  All other regions combined made up under 2 million of 360's sales (13.38 million) for the entire year in 2010. 

I say its the end of the discussion, but I'm sure some people will be still be posting how 2.x million consoles on shelves is just too much, while completely ignoring the obvious miscalculation in demand because of Nov numbers.


Theres stil some things that cannot be explained though, like the fact that MS announced it was +66 mil sold to consumers, not shipped. And since everyone is waiting for Nintendo's numbers, why are we not believing MS? The fact that they sold through +66 mil would imply that shipments is indeed above that something like a high 66mil (66.7, 66.8, 66.9) and thats only if the given 66mil was a low 66. If its a high 66 sold through then shipments could well be over 67mil and possible a high 67 since according to most here +1.5mil on shelves isnt out of the question.

Another point that hasnt been entirelt refuted is the fact that shipments dont occur in one specific time, but are frequent occurences throughout the month, which makes it hard for them to overship to the US.

Initially i was thinking along similar scenarios as you and others have pointed out. But in light of these facts things remain a mystery, and i think its premature to call it a day and claim end of discussion.

I was saying it will be the end of discussion if EU numbers show we don't have the 360 greatly undertracked, not now.  And the reason why I know it is shipped and not sold through is because no tracking service is backing those numbers up.  With the 66+ announcement VGC had to up the numbers they already had.  But, when the real numbers came out, we had 360 GREATLY overtracked in the US (its largest market) by ~1.2 million.  So far in EU we have the 360 slightly overtracked in France (have to wait for the rest of the numbers to see what EU looks like as a whole).  It seems that the PS3 has outsold the 360 in Aus this year (or at least it was outselling the 360 3-1 for the month following its pricecut and was the #1 console at the end of Oct).  And we already know we are spot on in Japan because of Media Create each week. 

In other words, for MS to have been talking sold and not shipped, we would have to be undertracking the 360 by ~2.5-3 million in the countries inside EU (besides France) and the ones that make up MEAA (Middle East, Africa, Asia) in the last 3 months of 2011.  For MEAA, it is extremly unlikely we are undertracked by much, as its such a small portion of sales.  Like I said above, it made up less than 2 million 360 sales for the whole year in 2010.  For EU, in a region that sells quite a bit in favor of the PS3 (like the US for 360), I highly doubt we are ~2-2.5 million undertracked for the 360.  MS would have made a big announcement months ago if sales in EU all of a sudden shifted greatly in the 360's favor.



Adobo said:
PS3 fanboys will never BELIEVE every positive things about MS reports so...


Well PS3 fanboys have an excuse for not believing Microsoft. NPD numbers actually widened the gap in PS3s favor based on VgChartz data.
Not to mention the fact they didn't actually say "Xbox 360 is the #1 console for 2011". They said "We're the world hardware leader for 2011". This statement is VERY VAGUE. They not provide exact numbers to back up their claims. From their vague statement it's possible they are counting Kinect since technically it is a piece of hardware. We just don't know.  

If Xbox 360 really was the best-selling console of the year, then congratualtions to Microsoft.



thismeintiel said:

I was saying it will be the end of discussion if EU numbers show we don't have the 360 greatly undertracked, not now.  And the reason why I know it is shipped and not sold through is because no tracking service is backing those numbers up.  With the 66+ announcement VGC had to up the numbers they already had.  But, when the real numbers came out, we had 360 GREATLY overtracked in the US (its largest market) by ~1.2 million.  So far in EU we have the 360 slightly overtracked in France (have to wait for the rest of the numbers to see what EU looks like as a whole).  It seems that the PS3 has outsold the 360 in Aus this year (or at least it was outselling the 360 3-1 for the month following its pricecut and was the #1 console at the end of Oct).  And we already know we are spot on in Japan because of Media Create each week. 

In other words, for MS to have been talking sold and not shipped, we would have to be undertracking the 360 by ~2.5-3 million in the countries inside EU (besides France) and the ones that make up MEAA (Middle East, Africa, Asia) in the last 3 months of 2011.  For MEAA, it is extremly unlikely we are undertracked by much, as its such a small portion of sales.  Like I said above, it made up less than 2 million 360 sales for the whole year in 2010.  For EU, in a region that sells quite a bit in favor of the PS3 (like the US for 360), I highly doubt we are ~2-2.5 million undertracked for the 360.  MS would have made a big announcement months ago if sales in EU all of a sudden shifted greatly in the 360's favor.


MS has already come out and said that its sold to consumers "66 million Xbox users". So im not sure what makes you think you know better than them. If this was a mistake surely they wouldnt go as far as to say it more than once? Therefore shipments would need to be higher than that figure. They would have to prove this with their shipment figures. If they come out on thursday and give a shipment figure thats not in line with their sold through claimed numbers then they are gonna look like big idiots. So im assuming come thursday they will annouce a shipment figure that is close to 67 mil.

About sold through data : MS has obviously done their own tracking or extrapolations regarding sold through to consumers or else they wouldnt have said they sold that much. Heres where it gets tricky...if Nintendo come out with their data (which is also extrapolated data) and this data shows that 360 is not undertracked in EU then what? Then its simply MS vs Nintendo's word. Im pretty sure MS is not going to take back their statment or even admit to a huge error like that so thats that.

But given all the data we will likely get in the coming weeks we will have a better view on the situation. The problem i have with your post is that you are assuming an absolute situation as if to say MS is definately wrong...which i dont think is the case as of yet.

It might even be a case where MS themselves have overtracked their sales (which i dont think is entirely impossible). These numbers are never absolute, and i think when everything is done and dusted MS is likely to have overshipped but lets wait and see for all the data to give such an unwavering analysis and conclusion.



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Shinobi-san said:


Theres stil some things that cannot be explained though, like the fact that MS announced it was +66 mil sold to consumers, not shipped.


They actually changed their wording from "66 million users" to "66 million sold". If it is sold to consumer there was no need to issue a press release. Definitely look like a PR mistake. In any case, they should always use sold to retailer figures, its the only figures that can be 100% accurate.

 

Update: During its CES press conference last night, Microsoft referred to "66 million Xbox users" and the number of Kinect units shipped.

In a press release this morning, the company clarified these numbers, stating that "Xbox 360 has sold more than 66 million consoles" and that "Kinect has sold more than 18 million sensors around the world."

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1216177p1.html



Icyedge said:
Shinobi-san said:
 


Theres stil some things that cannot be explained though, like the fact that MS announced it was +66 mil sold to consumers, not shipped.


They actually changed their wording from "66 million users" to "66 million sold". If it is sold to consumer there was no need to issue a press release. Definitely look like a PR mistake. In any case, they should always use sold to retailer figures, its the only figures that can be 100% accurate.

 

Update: During its CES press conference last night, Microsoft referred to "66 million Xbox users" and the number of Kinect units shipped.

In a press release this morning, the company clarified these numbers, stating that "Xbox 360 has sold more than 66 million consoles" and that "Kinect has sold more than 18 million sensors around the world."

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1216177p1.html

"Xbox 360 has sold more than 66 million consoles" well that statement doesnt neccesarily mean it hasnt sold through 66 mil

But yeah a PR mistake would atleast make things more feasible...which actually stil leaves room for some heavy overtracking/undertracking.



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Shinobi-san said:
Icyedge said:
Shinobi-san said:
 


Theres stil some things that cannot be explained though, like the fact that MS announced it was +66 mil sold to consumers, not shipped.


They actually changed their wording from "66 million users" to "66 million sold". If it is sold to consumer there was no need to issue a press release. Definitely look like a PR mistake. In any case, they should always use sold to retailer figures, its the only figures that can be 100% accurate.

 

Update: During its CES press conference last night, Microsoft referred to "66 million Xbox users" and the number of Kinect units shipped.

In a press release this morning, the company clarified these numbers, stating that "Xbox 360 has sold more than 66 million consoles" and that "Kinect has sold more than 18 million sensors around the world."

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1216177p1.html

"Xbox 360 has sold more than 66 million consoles" well that statement doesnt neccesarily mean it hasnt sold through 66 mil

But yeah a PR mistake would atleast make things more feasible...which actually stil leaves room for some heavy overtracking/undertracking.

Yes, but I like I said, if it is sold to consumer, there was no need to issue a press release the next day; 66 million users = 66 million sold to consumer. I agree its not rocket science though, they may have wanted to hit on the nail some more. But then you also got the NPD numbers. I know sometime there is un-reasonable hate on here (not just on here, everywhere), but its not the case in this thread. Its all good for MS and its fan if its sold to consumer, but in knowledge of current facts, its questionable.



Icyedge said:
Shinobi-san said:
Icyedge said:
Shinobi-san said:
 


Theres stil some things that cannot be explained though, like the fact that MS announced it was +66 mil sold to consumers, not shipped.


They actually changed their wording from "66 million users" to "66 million sold". If it is sold to consumer there was no need to issue a press release. Definitely look like a PR mistake. In any case, they should always use sold to retailer figures, its the only figures that can be 100% accurate.

 

Update: During its CES press conference last night, Microsoft referred to "66 million Xbox users" and the number of Kinect units shipped.

In a press release this morning, the company clarified these numbers, stating that "Xbox 360 has sold more than 66 million consoles" and that "Kinect has sold more than 18 million sensors around the world."

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1216177p1.html

"Xbox 360 has sold more than 66 million consoles" well that statement doesnt neccesarily mean it hasnt sold through 66 mil

But yeah a PR mistake would atleast make things more feasible...which actually stil leaves room for some heavy overtracking/undertracking.

Yes, but I like I said, if it is sold to consumer, there was no need to issue a press release the next day; 66 million users = 66 million sold to consumer. I agree its not rocket science though, they may have wanted to hit on the nail some more. But then you also got the NPD numbers. I know sometime there is un-reasonable hate on here (not just on here, everywhere), but its not the case in this thread. Its all good for MS and its fan if its sold to consumer, but in knowledge of current facts, its questionable.

It is definately questionable now. But when MS announed it initially some users immediately slammed it, and then turned around and said lets wait for Nintendo's data...that to me is hypocrisy.



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Shinobi-san said:
 

It is definately questionable now. But when MS announed it initially some users immediately slammed it, and then turned around and said lets wait for Nintendo's data...that to me is hypocrisy.


And I definitely agree lol.