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Forums - General Discussion - Hebrewism vs the world

snakenobi said:

So i have been following the US republican presidential nomination hopeful's debates and other interviews.They again and again bring the religion topic in it.

Now i know the basic laws alot of which are same in all religions and are based on logic,reasoning and philosophy.So i am able to understand why they are in place

What i am trying to find out is the stories and rules of abhramic religions which is the topic of debate alot of which donot follow logic and reasoning.

I am not asking whether they are right or wrong as religion opinions don't matter to me.Now i have tried to find out and reach the root of Abrahamic religion but there is just a lot of and i mean alot to read.

if Adam and Eve were the first man and woman and then they populated the earth,wouldn't all people there after be the same but this isn't agreed upon as they say they created 3 or 4 different races - The african race,the Causcoid race and the mongloid race and then created GOD's chosen children aka Hebrews.

is that what the religion says,mostly Christian-judea side of it which is the part of debate in US.

So help me out here a bit.But please keep opinions out.

Well actually Abrhamic genology is a lot more diverse then what's been distilled in the bible and talmud and such.  Up until the bible, most people who believed in Abrhamaic religions DIDN'T believe Adam and Eve were the creators of everyone.  Really a lot of them belelieved Eve was actually Adam's second "wife."

However according to the bible different races came about by god after the people disobeyed him.  Everyone lived in one place with one lanaguage, and then god made it so that they could no longer understand each other, and so the people spread out and founded the various nations of the world.

As for the different races... there are a couple different interpretations there.  One is just, how people got different skin tones outside the bible, another involves the sons of Noah... and I'm sure there are others.



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Mr Khan said:

Say it with me now: Ancient historical claims are worthless. The Palestinian right to statehood is predicated upon their desire for it, and nothing more. There is literally no good reason to not support a two-state solution. None whatsoever

I don't know, I think you could make a pretty convincing arguement that a two-state solution will never work.

Afterall, whenever the Israeli's pull back, the Palestinians take that as a sign to attack MORE, leading to an Israel reprisal. 

Even when the Palestinians get together to pull back some, then the Israeli's follow suit it seems to be followed by a significant Palestinian uptick in violence.

Additionally, deals won't be made because the mere release of what is negotited is powerful enough to force negotiatiors on the Palestinian side to be forced to withdrawn... and that objectable deal is one neither Israeli's nor Palestinians want.  IE: The schism between what each side expects is gigantic.

Therefore we're essentially just headed towards either a constant situation we have now, until the fall of Israel or until Israel has enough and goes into actual ethnic cleansing mode... meaning essentially things are going to get a LOT worse before they get better.


I could see that arguement.  Of course, that's just me.  If I were a Palestinian the first thing I'd do is try to leave for a foreign country anyway.

 

Now I agree that nobody should be against the IDEA of a 2-state solution.  However I can see being against it practically because it seems like an impossibility/the only way to it creates a LOT more harm then another path.



Kasz216 said:

Well actually Abrhamic genology is a lot more diverse then what's been distilled in the bible and talmud and such.  Up until the bible, most people who believed in Abrhamaic religions DIDN'T believe Adam and Eve were the creators of everyone.  Really a lot of them belelieved Eve was actually Adam's second "wife."

However according to the bible different races came about by god after the people disobeyed him.  Everyone lived in one place with one lanaguage, and then god made it so that they could no longer understand each other, and so the people spread out and founded the various nations of the world.

As for the different races... there are a couple different interpretations there.  One is just, how people got different skin tones outside the bible, another involves the sons of Noah... and I'm sure there are others.

alrite,thats what i was thinking and have found in alot of places

thanks



Wow this thread is stupid and people are so misinformed.

First, author of topic. Go read some books. Try wikipedia if you're lazy. You seem to have done very little research on this, and asking a video game forum about this will not lead you to the best results.

Second, to whoever said some crazy stuff: Chosen people doesn't mean what most people think. It's more of a burden than being special. The chosen people, aka the Jewish people, includes anyone of Jewish faith, thus including Arab Jews, (many this day, and many living in Israel) and all it means basically is that they are responsible for being devoted to God. They are not responsible for getting more members and keeping them (crusades like Christians, or thru fear and terrorists like today's Muslims) which partially accounts for their low numbers. More like a lead a good life by example. Walk the walk but not talk the talk.

The Muslims didn't come about until thousands of years later, even after Jesus and all that fun stuff. So they aren't trying to separate out anything.

Back to the OP: Like another poster says, the whole Adam and Eve story isn't meant to be taken so literally, more of a story about how things came to be, thus is why Eve was more Adam's wife than the first two people ever. More like the first two people in this story. Since obviously people on the other side of the world never heard of any of this stuff. You can take the story of the tower of babel and all that if you want like Kasz said, or you can be more realistic. Keep in mind that when most of this stuff was written, other parts of the world were completely unknown, thus explanations of it are minimal at best.

You're the first person I've ever heard of to call the Jewish people a race, never mind that race is a term invented recently by governments for other purposes. And I know no one who ever thought that. God didn't create the Jewish people separately and the Jewish people believe that ALL people on this earth are children of God and made in his image. So yes, the Muslims, Christians, Hindus, etc are all children of God in the eyes of the Jewish people and that no one is better than anyone else, it is just the Jewish people's responsibility to maintain their own faith and devotion to God.

The fact that you even said some of the things you did in here makes me think that you really need to go onto wikipedia and do your own research for a few days at least. There are a lot of intelligent posters on this website, but also a lot of misinformed ones, and you'd be better off at LEAST having a little knowledge on the subject so you're not so confused when people try to answer you assuming you have some background in the matter.



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Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

Say it with me now: Ancient historical claims are worthless. The Palestinian right to statehood is predicated upon their desire for it, and nothing more. There is literally no good reason to not support a two-state solution. None whatsoever

I don't know, I think you could make a pretty convincing arguement that a two-state solution will never work.

Afterall, whenever the Israeli's pull back, the Palestinians take that as a sign to attack MORE, leading to an Israel reprisal. 

Even when the Palestinians get together to pull back some, then the Israeli's follow suit it seems to be followed by a significant Palestinian uptick in violence.

Additionally, deals won't be made because the mere release of what is negotited is powerful enough to force negotiatiors on the Palestinian side to be forced to withdrawn... and that objectable deal is one neither Israeli's nor Palestinians want.  IE: The schism between what each side expects is gigantic.

Therefore we're essentially just headed towards either a constant situation we have now, until the fall of Israel or until Israel has enough and goes into actual ethnic cleansing mode... meaning essentially things are going to get a LOT worse before they get better.


I could see that arguement.  Of course, that's just me.  If I were a Palestinian the first thing I'd do is try to leave for a foreign country anyway.

 

Now I agree that nobody should be against the IDEA of a 2-state solution.  However I can see being against it practically because it seems like an impossibility/the only way to it creates a LOT more harm then another path.

The Palestinian people (relatively new term in the sense of an organized people under a government) DID try to leave for foreign countries, aka the surrounding Muslim countries, but they wouldn't take them in.  They refused the Palestinians because all the other Arab Nations look down on them like garbage and want nothing to do with them.  They use them as a pawn against the Jewish people because not only do they not like the Jews, they don't like the Palestinians either. 

But yeah, it will be a while before anything significant happens.  Israel has been being attacked and winning every war brought against them since 40s.  It's hard to negotiate with anyone who's first priority is to have you dead and wiped off the map entirely.



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Jexy said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

Say it with me now: Ancient historical claims are worthless. The Palestinian right to statehood is predicated upon their desire for it, and nothing more. There is literally no good reason to not support a two-state solution. None whatsoever

I don't know, I think you could make a pretty convincing arguement that a two-state solution will never work.

Afterall, whenever the Israeli's pull back, the Palestinians take that as a sign to attack MORE, leading to an Israel reprisal. 

Even when the Palestinians get together to pull back some, then the Israeli's follow suit it seems to be followed by a significant Palestinian uptick in violence.

Additionally, deals won't be made because the mere release of what is negotited is powerful enough to force negotiatiors on the Palestinian side to be forced to withdrawn... and that objectable deal is one neither Israeli's nor Palestinians want.  IE: The schism between what each side expects is gigantic.

Therefore we're essentially just headed towards either a constant situation we have now, until the fall of Israel or until Israel has enough and goes into actual ethnic cleansing mode... meaning essentially things are going to get a LOT worse before they get better.


I could see that arguement.  Of course, that's just me.  If I were a Palestinian the first thing I'd do is try to leave for a foreign country anyway.

 

Now I agree that nobody should be against the IDEA of a 2-state solution.  However I can see being against it practically because it seems like an impossibility/the only way to it creates a LOT more harm then another path.

The Palestinian people (relatively new term in the sense of an organized people under a government) DID try to leave for foreign countries, aka the surrounding Muslim countries, but they wouldn't take them in.  They refused the Palestinians because all the other Arab Nations look down on them like garbage and want nothing to do with them.  They use them as a pawn against the Jewish people because not only do they not like the Jews, they don't like the Palestinians either. 

But yeah, it will be a while before anything significant happens.  Israel has been being attacked and winning every war brought against them since 40s.  It's hard to negotiate with anyone who's first priority is to have you dead and wiped off the map entirely.


Oh, I know.  I mean that can be seen by how the Palestinians were treated when the West Bank and Gaza were under Jordan and Egypts control.  Essentially no different.

I'd try and leave for the US or Europe.  Despite being pro Israel most people in America love palestinians.  Ones that leave behind the culture of hate that's brewed in the middle east anyway.  (on both sides.)



Jexy said:

The Palestinian people (relatively new term in the sense of an organized people under a government) DID try to leave for foreign countries, aka the surrounding Muslim countries, but they wouldn't take them in.  They refused the Palestinians because all the other Arab Nations look down on them like garbage and want nothing to do with them.  They use them as a pawn against the Jewish people because not only do they not like the Jews, they don't like the Palestinians either. 

But yeah, it will be a while before anything significant happens.  Israel has been being attacked and winning every war brought against them since 40s.  It's hard to negotiate with anyone who's first priority is to have you dead and wiped off the map entirely.

Only the Yom Kippur war was really a pure attack on the Israelis, as well as the Israeli War of Independence. Sinai and Six Days were Israeli aggression, and the Lebanese Civil War was really the case of an unrighteous group (e.g. Hezbollah and the Syrians) fighting for a righteous cause (equal power-sharing for all Lebanese peoples against the tilt in favor of the Christian minority that existed before), with Israel inadvertantly fighting to oppress the Muslims, not out of spite against them, but to spite Syria who supported them.



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Mr Khan said:
Jexy said:
 

The Palestinian people (relatively new term in the sense of an organized people under a government) DID try to leave for foreign countries, aka the surrounding Muslim countries, but they wouldn't take them in.  They refused the Palestinians because all the other Arab Nations look down on them like garbage and want nothing to do with them.  They use them as a pawn against the Jewish people because not only do they not like the Jews, they don't like the Palestinians either. 

But yeah, it will be a while before anything significant happens.  Israel has been being attacked and winning every war brought against them since 40s.  It's hard to negotiate with anyone who's first priority is to have you dead and wiped off the map entirely.

Only the Yom Kippur war was really a pure attack on the Israelis, as well as the Israeli War of Independence. Sinai and Six Days were Israeli aggression, and the Lebanese Civil War was really the case of an unrighteous group (e.g. Hezbollah and the Syrians) fighting for a righteous cause (equal power-sharing for all Lebanese peoples against the tilt in favor of the Christian minority that existed before), with Israel inadvertantly fighting to oppress the Muslims, not out of spite against them, but to spite Syria who supported them

Yom Kippur war was to regain lost territory and 1982 invasion of Lebanon was to kick the PLO out who were threatening the Israelis with diplomacy. It was known as the war for the West Bank. Of course at the time the pretext was to stop the PLO from launching rockets into Northern Israel.



Jexy said:

The Palestinian people (relatively new term in the sense of an organized people under a government) DID try to leave for foreign countries, aka the surrounding Muslim countries, but they wouldn't take them in.  They refused the Palestinians because all the other Arab Nations look down on them like garbage and want nothing to do with them.  They use them as a pawn against the Jewish people because not only do they not like the Jews, they don't like the Palestinians either. 

But yeah, it will be a while before anything significant happens.  Israel has been being attacked and winning every war brought against them since 40s.  It's hard to negotiate with anyone who's first priority is to have you dead and wiped off the map entirely.

What are you talking about? Data from the UNRWA.

Refugee statistics

The number of Palestine refugees varies depending on the source. For 1948-49 refugees, for example, the Israeli government suggests a number as low as 520,000 as opposed to 850,000 by their Palestinian counterparts. As of January 2010, UNRWA cites 1,396,368 registered refugees in camps and 3,370,302 registered refugees not in camps.[27]

The number of Palestinian refugees by country according to UNRWA in January 2010 were as follows:

  • Jordan 1,983,733[28]
  • Lebanon 425,640[28]
  • Syria 472,109[28]
  • West Bank 778,993[28]
  • Gaza Strip 1,106,195[28]


Badassbab said:
Jexy said:

The Palestinian people (relatively new term in the sense of an organized people under a government) DID try to leave for foreign countries, aka the surrounding Muslim countries, but they wouldn't take them in.  They refused the Palestinians because all the other Arab Nations look down on them like garbage and want nothing to do with them.  They use them as a pawn against the Jewish people because not only do they not like the Jews, they don't like the Palestinians either. 

But yeah, it will be a while before anything significant happens.  Israel has been being attacked and winning every war brought against them since 40s.  It's hard to negotiate with anyone who's first priority is to have you dead and wiped off the map entirely.

What are you talking about? Data from the UNRWA.

Refugee statistics

The number of Palestine refugees varies depending on the source. For 1948-49 refugees, for example, the Israeli government suggests a number as low as 520,000 as opposed to 850,000 by their Palestinian counterparts. As of January 2010, UNRWA cites 1,396,368 registered refugees in camps and 3,370,302 registered refugees not in camps.[27]

The number of Palestinian refugees by country according to UNRWA in January 2010 were as follows:

  • Jordan 1,983,733[28]
  • Lebanon 425,640[28]
  • Syria 472,109[28]
  • West Bank 778,993[28]
  • Gaza Strip 1,106,195[28]

Have you been there?  Have you heard what the people there say?  Do you know how they feel?  I have.



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