Neither reviews or sales decide the quality of a product. I'd say nothing does, as quality is a subjective and complex concept with no real way measuring it. The best way to measure it though, is people's opinions. And neither reviews or sales have much to do with how much people value the product. Many people fall for hype and advertizing, but end up disliking games. Good legs is often a very slightly positive sign of quality, but only that, it doesn't really say much.

Quality isn't entirely subjective. For example, a burger with an actual beef patty is objectively of higher quality than one that isn't.

Even in stories, you can objectively look at elements, like characterization and how logical the story is (and I mean logic in the sense of a reasonable flow, not in terms of being sensible and realistic). But whether you like a particular story is still up to you. That doesn't change whether a plot hole exists in a story, or whether a character's motivations make sense.

That's how you get the notion of "so bad, it's good". Objectively bad, but subjectively enjoyable.

THis, i never stated that reviews or more important, but one does not dictate the other. SOme people do in fact buy or not buy games based on reviews, and some do buy or not buy based on sales, or what there friends are playing, or ads. Its not black and white

Well reviews should not be help up even as much as sales. If for no other reason, it's the review system showing it was broken by developers seeking the high metacritic marks.

This is nonsense. There are going to be people who enjoy patties that are made with filler - such as sweetbreads or other organ meat - and even patties that are made with a beef substitute altogether. There is nothing objective about the quality of a beef patty inherent to its ingredients, only to the experience of it, and that's going to differ from person to person.

Was going to place my pre-order, still not possible. They will probably set this up later today, during US work hours. or maybe they forgot...

thats true. but back to what you originally said." So we will decide if Xenoblade is a good game, not the reviewers." THe thing is that this is a game that will have a limited run and only being distributed through one chain, so how much does this have to sell to be considered "GOOD"?  Thats the issue I have with that whole idea, there are too much factors before these games even hit retail that will affect there sales. 

"There are going to be people who enjoy patties that are made with filler - such as sweetbreads or other organ meat - and even patties that are made with a beef substitute altogether. There is nothing objective about the quality of a beef patty inherent to its ingredients, only to the experience of it, and that's going to differ from person to person."

Okay, let me clarify. The context was about stuff apparently in the burgers that chizum was arguing about. I didn't mean those things you mentioned.

"thats true. but back to what you originally said." So we will decide if Xenoblade is a good game, not the reviewers." THe thing is that this is a game that will have a limited run and only being distributed through one chain, so how much does this have to sell to be considered "GOOD"? Thats the issue I have with that whole idea, there are too much factors before these games even hit retail that will affect there sales."

It's more longevity, like legs and how fans feel about a game well after the release, than hard sales. Unfortunately, if it's a limited run, that would hurt legs. But if the fans still like it even a few years from now, that would still matter more than reviews.

But how will we know?? If they cannot buy the game because it is no longer being manufactured, how can we possibly tell, if the game was "good"?  Internet forum dwellers dont represent the majority.

I wrote "fan", not "internet forum dweller". I mean the people that still talk about games like Crystalis, or Zombies Ate My Neighbors, when someone brings them up, even if the gaming press doesn't talk about those games. I mean the people that turned Minecraft into a better selling game than most of the games that reviewers toss out high scores to.

Plus, back to the comment that got me on this, someone mentioned that this celebration of North America finally having the game would somehow be ended by the reviews over here, as though our opinions were subordinate to the reviewers.

Surely you can agree that is bullshit.