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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Wii U vs PS4 vs Xbox One FULL SPECS (January 24, 2014)

ethomaz said:

The A10 APU uses the 32nm process and have  a integrated GPU that performs on pair with Radeon 7660... I think Sony is putting an dedicated GPU inside PS4 too.

Edit - Fixed the correct GPU.


Personally, I would bet against an APU and a GPU being in the same system ...

If you wanted better graphics performance than what could be provided by an APU you would probably be better off using the CPU from the APU and putting the resources (money/wattage) towards a better dedicated GPU than having (essentially) two GPUs. In theory I could see exceptions if you wanted to use the GPU on the CPU as a physics processing unit; but I think you'd get better performance at a lower cost with lower energy consumption by offloading physics to a more powerful GPU and having a simpler CPU.



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drkohler said:
Viper1 said:

By the way, I build PC's as a side job.   I am that guy on the forums telling you to get a 90% rated PSU at 150% of peak load (you don't want 40%-60% of peak load...that would be very bad).

Which I never said. I said if your PC blows 250W, buy a PSU that can output 450-550W (running roughly at 40-60% capacity).

Actually, you did but I knew what you meant.  I was making a joke.  

Your statement:

"tell people to buy a PS that runs between 40-60% of max capacity..."

You meant where the peak load is 40-60% of max capacity of the PSU but your wording kinda flipped it around.   Again, I knew you meant it the correct way.  I was merely making a joke based on the wording.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Why do you have PS4 down for app integration and suggest GoogleTV? PlayStation Mobile is far more likely.



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

drkohler said:
superchunk said:
ethomaz said:

superchunk said:

I think he's just saying the APU has a GPU integrated within itself and its ~7660 model.

The APU is a 7660 like the graphs shows but I think the PS4 needs another GPU or a better APU.

"A10-5800K has a Northern Island HD 7660D GPU which is able to run COD Modern Warfare 3 at 30-45FPS (no AA/AF, min. details) at full HD without 3D

I think that config is weak for the next-gen... I expect at least to run that game with the same config in 3D.

You are not considering that the chip will not be off the shelf. It will be customized as will the games. A game console gets far better results on the same set of resources than a PC.

I mean that game runs as good as that description now on current PS360 which has a far lower GPU than the 7660HD.

The XBox GPU has 240 (48*5) processing units, the A10 has 384 (96*4) units. That is not far lower and nowhere enough for 1080p/60Hz/3D.

Unfortunately the A10 is not GCN technology. If you add another GPU (and there is no way a lonely A10 can do 1080P/60Hz/3D, even without the PC driver brake), you are forced to add an older non-GCN GPU if you want seamless XFire operation. On the other hand, you could use the APU GPU for other stuff and add a GCN GPU (like I mentioned before the 7770 fits perfectly). Either way I'd say the second GPU is a dead giveaway if they really go the APU path (bad decision, Sony, really bad - but they can't go back to the drawing board at this late stage). If they want to beat the WiiU specs, the second GPU better be something big. Even then, the XBoxNext CPU rumour is beating the crap out of this PS4 rumour.

From what I was just reading... all of the 7xxxx GPUs are GCN tech,including the 7660D in the APU.

Well, I updated the OP and 2nd post. As soon as more info on the 2013 Steamroller APU is out, I'll add that in.

I don't see either company going for 2nd GPU with an APU due to simple logistics of heat/wattage/cost.



Chark said:

Why do you have PS4 down for app integration and suggest GoogleTV? PlayStation Mobile is far more likely.

Its just a question I am tossing out there. I think there is a possibility Sony would have some sort of Android integration and I wrote that well before they fully defined their Playstation Mobile or even Vita OS.



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superchunk said:
drkohler said:
superchunk said:
ethomaz said:

superchunk said:

I think he's just saying the APU has a GPU integrated within itself and its ~7660 model.

The APU is a 7660 like the graphs shows but I think the PS4 needs another GPU or a better APU.

"A10-5800K has a Northern Island HD 7660D GPU which is able to run COD Modern Warfare 3 at 30-45FPS (no AA/AF, min. details) at full HD without 3D

I think that config is weak for the next-gen... I expect at least to run that game with the same config in 3D.

You are not considering that the chip will not be off the shelf. It will be customized as will the games. A game console gets far better results on the same set of resources than a PC.

I mean that game runs as good as that description now on current PS360 which has a far lower GPU than the 7660HD.

The XBox GPU has 240 (48*5) processing units, the A10 has 384 (96*4) units. That is not far lower and nowhere enough for 1080p/60Hz/3D.

Unfortunately the A10 is not GCN technology. If you add another GPU (and there is no way a lonely A10 can do 1080P/60Hz/3D, even without the PC driver brake), you are forced to add an older non-GCN GPU if you want seamless XFire operation. On the other hand, you could use the APU GPU for other stuff and add a GCN GPU (like I mentioned before the 7770 fits perfectly). Either way I'd say the second GPU is a dead giveaway if they really go the APU path (bad decision, Sony, really bad - but they can't go back to the drawing board at this late stage). If they want to beat the WiiU specs, the second GPU better be something big. Even then, the XBoxNext CPU rumour is beating the crap out of this PS4 rumour.

From what I was just reading... all of the 7xxxx GPUs are GCN tech,including the 7660D in the APU.

Well, I updated the OP and 2nd post. As soon as more info on the 2013 Steamroller APU is out, I'll add that in.

I don't see either company going for 2nd GPU with an APU due to simple logistics of heat/wattage/cost.

The 7660D is not really a 7xxx GPU. It's still based on the same technology as the 6xxx-Series. That's also the reason why crossfire between the 7660D and real 7xxx-cards doesn't work.

But on the other hand: It's still a devkit and the next APU-series is expected to feature GPUs based on GCN technology.



So I have just two options...

A) There is another GPU.
B) The A10 APU is not a 7660D... it's anything new.

The 7660D is too weak.



superchunk said:

From what I was just reading... all of the 7xxxx GPUs are GCN tech,including the 7660D in the APU.

Well, I updated the OP and 2nd post. As soon as more info on the 2013 Steamroller APU is out, I'll add that in.

I don't see either company going for 2nd GPU with an APU due to simple logistics of heat/wattage/cost.

7660D is not GNC (it's basically cut down Cayman (69xx), which is VLIW4) and it can be put in CrossFire with up to 6670/7670 (which I find somewhat odd, since they are VLIW5 cards), in which case their combined performance seems to be in area of HD7770. To be honest, I don't see any real problem with TDP there (around 130-165W, depending on exact APU), though I think it's rather silly if they took APU + weaker GPU instead of CPU + proper GPU. That said, some benchmarks of that combo:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/FM2_APU_Review/7.html

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/amd-trinity-graphics_9.html#sect0

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224-4.html



ethomaz said:
So I have just two options...

A) There is another GPU.
B) The A10 APU is not a 7660D... it's anything new.

The 7660D is too weak.


Reading more and more about the 7600D and I think you may be right in a manner of speaking... but I think it comes down to what will be inside the steamroller APU as I'm betting that is actually the final target.

That will have a real higher end HD7XXX equivalent card and more along the lines of what I've been thinking all along. Its heat/wattage/cost should also still be within the range of what a console selling for ~$400. I think that may be more realistic than a APU with a secondary GPU as well.



You also have to remember:
In desktop computers the GPU in the APU is pretty much limited by the ram. So there is no real reason to put a strong GPU in it (the GPUs in the A10 still are totally ram-limited in most cases).

For consoles you can design the GPU around the available ram (that's also one point you may change in your opening posts: just because all rumored GPUs use GDDR5 that doesn't mean anything on the matter which kind of ram the consoles will use. There's no real problem using DDR3 if you have a large enough bus width). Ram in PCs is (usually) limited to dual channel, but in a console you can run as many ram chips parallel as you want.

AMD could design a special GPU for PS4s APU which can be a lot more powerful than the 7660D.