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Forums - Microsoft - Next-gen Xbox announcement at CES in January - rumour

sales2099 on 15 November 2011
Seece said:
No way.

A) they wouldn't announce it this early, they're not Nintendo. They announced X360 5 months before it launched.
B) 2012 launch is out of the question, Halo 4 is coming and it's coming on X360, they wouldn't launch it on 720, userbase is far to small.
C) they won't price cut this holiday, they'll chop $100 off the kinect bundle price 2012 holiday and that'll be what they focus on to compete with PS3 $199 and WiiU.


A. 5 months compared to this which would be 10 months if the rumor is true. Still fits MS's strategy to announce a console the same year before release.

B Ever considered MS pulling a Twilight princess? USing the 360 version for sales but using the next gen Halo 4 with improved graphics to lure new customers to next gen?

C. Maybe MS is getting all the profit they can this holiday, do the price drop in the spring of 2012 to get as much non holiday sales they can, and then at the same time market the 360 and next gen Xbox in a combined cross gen media blitz that will overshadow anything Nintendo and Sony could advertise?

Thats how I see it anyway. Both are possibilities. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Krusnik on 15 November 2011
disolitude said:
Potable_Toe said:
disolitude said:
This is prolly not true but what's with people going crazy saying you need more than 2 gigs of ram? You guys should run hardware monitor while playing games on PC more often. With no windows running on the console 2 gigs is plenty for next Gen. If they have Another 1.5 gigs of video ram and 2 gigs of system ram they are set. I dont use up 4 gigs of ram when gaming on 3 screens with windows eating 500 mega of ram on its own...

It may be alright now, and even 1-2 years from now but if you think how far games are being pushed now and then think how far they will be in 5-6 years time after the system would be approaching the usual halfway mark of its generation it will, once again, be a big bottleneck let alone towards the end of the generation. Personally I would like to see an 'ultra-beast' console but realisticly speaking around 4gb of RAM should be their minimum target, not two... most laptops these day have more than 2gb of RAM. Ofcourse this is likely inaccurate so in the end this may well be moot but the point still stands.

First of all, laptops, computers and such are not a good comparison for system ram needed for gaming as operating systems, browser tabs and other thing things take up a good chunk of system ram by themselves before the game even boots up...Below is a screenshot of my system ram usage as I am replying to this. I am not gaming and half of my ram is taken up...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OmR9Jz-kc7E/TsH4W6gBvCI/AAAAAAAAAgI/hEeWqXreFI0/s567/system%252520ram.jpg

Secondly, I think people will have to lower their next gen expectations. Microsoft and Sony next gen consoles are not going to pack a dual GTX 580 or 6990 video cards due to cost, power consumption and heat. Best we can hope for is something along the lines of gtx560Ti or 6950 like performance brought down to a 28 nm chip which consumes a maximum of 120W by itself.  So realistically for next gen people need to expect a slight bump in detail along with 1080p gaming at 60 frames per second and true 720p per eye 3D gaming @ 30 fps as a best case scenario. HD TV's that 99% of the people who play consoles opwn do not support higher settings than that so there is no point for them to deliver something better than that.

Lastly, next gen games will eat up video ram more than they eat up system ram. Something like Metro 2033 on 3 monitors maxed out already needs more video ram than system ram. Microsoft will be smart to give their video card as much ram as sytem ram. If people are expecting Avatar like graphics, be prepared for 2GB of video RAM to be used needed at least. System ram however really doesn't need to be much higher than 2 GB if there is dedicated video memory...assuming Xbox 720 doesn't run on windows vista :)

ha ha vista was a real pig yes...



Alby_da_Wolf on 15 November 2011
disolitude said:
Potable_Toe said:
disolitude said:
This is prolly not true but what's with people going crazy saying you need more than 2 gigs of ram? You guys should run hardware monitor while playing games on PC more often. With no windows running on the console 2 gigs is plenty for next Gen. If they have Another 1.5 gigs of video ram and 2 gigs of system ram they are set. I dont use up 4 gigs of ram when gaming on 3 screens with windows eating 500 mega of ram on its own...

It may be alright now, and even 1-2 years from now but if you think how far games are being pushed now and then think how far they will be in 5-6 years time after the system would be approaching the usual halfway mark of its generation it will, once again, be a big bottleneck let alone towards the end of the generation. Personally I would like to see an 'ultra-beast' console but realisticly speaking around 4gb of RAM should be their minimum target, not two... most laptops these day have more than 2gb of RAM. Ofcourse this is likely inaccurate so in the end this may well be moot but the point still stands.

First of all, laptops, computers and such are not a good comparison for system ram needed for gaming as operating systems, browser tabs and other thing things take up a good chunk of system ram by themselves before the game even boots up...Below is a screenshot of my system ram usage as I am replying to this. I am not gaming and half of my ram is taken up...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OmR9Jz-kc7E/TsH4W6gBvCI/AAAAAAAAAgI/hEeWqXreFI0/s567/system%252520ram.jpg

Secondly, I think people will have to lower their next gen expectations. Microsoft and Sony next gen consoles are not going to pack a dual GTX 580 or 6990 video cards due to cost, power consumption and heat. Best we can hope for is something along the lines of gtx560Ti or 6950 like performance brought down to a 28 nm chip which consumes a maximum of 120W by itself.  So realistically for next gen people need to expect a slight bump in detail along with 1080p gaming at 60 frames per second and true 720p per eye 3D gaming @ 30 fps as a best case scenario. HD TV's that 99% of the people who play consoles opwn do not support higher settings than that so there is no point for them to deliver something better than that.

Lastly, next gen games will eat up video ram more than they eat up system ram. Something like Metro 2033 on 3 monitors maxed out already needs more video ram than system ram. Microsoft will be smart to give their video card as much ram as sytem ram. If people are expecting Avatar like graphics, be prepared for 2GB of video RAM to be used needed at least. System ram however really doesn't need to be much higher than 2 GB if there is dedicated video memory...assuming Xbox 720 doesn't run on windows vista :)

True now, but to play safe, a good rule of thumb is that a console needs half the RAM of a mid-range PC contemporary at launch, as PC games devs consider that amount typically available for their games (MS usually tends to occupy half the average PC RAM with its latest systems). But 8GB is becoming quite common right now, and sooner or later devs will start considering 4GB free the typical amount, and the problems almost always come from multiplats, as devs don't want to spend time, money and other resources to optimise for each single architecture. So 4GB will be a play safe amount at the end of next year. When this gen consoles launched, they had just 1/4 (or even less in Wii's case) of the typical main RAM of a contemporary PC (yes XB360 potentially offers more room as UMA allows flexible allocation of memory either to central or graphics uses, but devs won't reduce the use of graphics RAM to reycle it as main one at risk of pissing off deep pocketed graphic whores, and they'll have anyway to adapt to the smallest offer, in case of multiplats, so it would be pointless), and this brought troubles in some cases, not to mention Wii, that being even more avaricious on RAM, ended up not receiving at all some ports or getting "special" (read "retarded") versions. Exclusives usually have no problems, but exclusives aren't everything. And this doesn't take into account that while this gen too little RAM crippled their chances limiting what they could run, next gen, maybe not Nintendo, but Sony and MS consoles will offer more non-gaming functions, extending their ability to be used as home theatre and general purpose computers.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Potable_Toe on 15 November 2011
disolitude said:
Potable_Toe said:
disolitude said:
This is prolly not true but what's with people going crazy saying you need more than 2 gigs of ram? You guys should run hardware monitor while playing games on PC more often. With no windows running on the console 2 gigs is plenty for next Gen. If they have Another 1.5 gigs of video ram and 2 gigs of system ram they are set. I dont use up 4 gigs of ram when gaming on 3 screens with windows eating 500 mega of ram on its own...

It may be alright now, and even 1-2 years from now but if you think how far games are being pushed now and then think how far they will be in 5-6 years time after the system would be approaching the usual halfway mark of its generation it will, once again, be a big bottleneck let alone towards the end of the generation. Personally I would like to see an 'ultra-beast' console but realisticly speaking around 4gb of RAM should be their minimum target, not two... most laptops these day have more than 2gb of RAM. Ofcourse this is likely inaccurate so in the end this may well be moot but the point still stands.

First of all, laptops, computers and such are not a good comparison for system ram needed for gaming as operating systems, browser tabs and other thing things take up a good chunk of system ram by themselves before the game even boots up...Below is a screenshot of my system ram usage as I am replying to this. I am not gaming and half of my ram is taken up...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OmR9Jz-kc7E/TsH4W6gBvCI/AAAAAAAAAgI/hEeWqXreFI0/s567/system%252520ram.jpg

Secondly, I think people will have to lower their next gen expectations. Microsoft and Sony next gen consoles are not going to pack a dual GTX 580 or 6990 video cards due to cost, power consumption and heat. Best we can hope for is something along the lines of gtx560Ti or 6950 like performance brought down to a 28 nm chip which consumes a maximum of 120W by itself.  So realistically for next gen people need to expect a slight bump in detail along with 1080p gaming at 60 frames per second and true 720p per eye 3D gaming @ 30 fps as a best case scenario. HD TV's that 99% of the people who play consoles opwn do not support higher settings than that so there is no point for them to deliver something better than that.

Lastly, next gen games will eat up video ram more than they eat up system ram. Something like Metro 2033 on 3 monitors maxed out already needs more video ram than system ram. Microsoft will be smart to give their video card as much ram as sytem ram. If people are expecting Avatar like graphics, be prepared for 2GB of video RAM to be used needed at least. System ram however really doesn't need to be much higher than 2 GB if there is dedicated video memory...assuming Xbox 720 doesn't run on windows vista :)


I'd like to point out that I am aware that we wont be seeing top of the range GPUs, let alone 2, because of heat, power consumption and cost. and my comment about wanting an 'ultra-beast' console was mostly made in jest knowing full well not to expect anything near the specs of any truely powerful PC and nor does a console need that much power. Nor do I expect a resolution jump from 1920X1080 because not many people would be able to take advantage of that rendering it mostly useless, it will be 2 or 3 generations (10-15 years) before that happens I would say. It just seems to me that 2GB total memory is a little low.

 

EDITED out useless mumbling.



Slimebeast on 15 November 2011

2 GB of RAM is laughably bad. Yevat Cerli wished for 8 GB right? I really hope they launch in 2013, not next year.



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Rockstar266 on 15 November 2011

in b4 rrod!

jks ;P i hope it's good :) i don't know what console i will get next gen first yet and if microsoft impresses me the xbox 720 will be it :)



disolitude on 15 November 2011
Slimebeast said:
2 GB of RAM is laughably bad. Yevat Cerli wished for 8 GB right? I really hope they launch in 2013, not next year.

Boot up Crysis 2 wih high res texture pack on max and see how much ram it uses...I guarantee you its not over 2 GB for the game on its own. 

Judging how bad the AI is and that graphics are all loaded in to video ram, it prolly uses less than a 1 gig of system ram while running.



disolitude on 15 November 2011

@ Aby_da_wolf and Portable_Toe

While I do wish microsoft would add as much ram as possible in to the 360 sequel...I'll totally pay extra 40 bucks for a console with 8 gigs of ram vs 2 (but other people may not).

However 6 months ago I had some bottleneck issues with my PC when I slapped dual GTX 580s in a an AM2+ architecture. I did some very thorough benchmarking to find it and noticed that lack of system ram for very high end PC games isn't a bottleneck. Memory controller and FSB on the other hand were...

Believe me, I'd love for one of these console manufacturers to come out with a 1000 dollar console. SSD, dual GPUs, 8 gigs of PC3-17000 ram, dual Xeon CPUs :)... But since this is real world, I don't see my dream coming true.



enditall727 on 15 November 2011
Alby_da_Wolf said:
disolitude said:
Potable_Toe said:
disolitude said:
This is prolly not true but what's with people going crazy saying you need more than 2 gigs of ram? You guys should run hardware monitor while playing games on PC more often. With no windows running on the console 2 gigs is plenty for next Gen. If they have Another 1.5 gigs of video ram and 2 gigs of system ram they are set. I dont use up 4 gigs of ram when gaming on 3 screens with windows eating 500 mega of ram on its own...

It may be alright now, and even 1-2 years from now but if you think how far games are being pushed now and then think how far they will be in 5-6 years time after the system would be approaching the usual halfway mark of its generation it will, once again, be a big bottleneck let alone towards the end of the generation. Personally I would like to see an 'ultra-beast' console but realisticly speaking around 4gb of RAM should be their minimum target, not two... most laptops these day have more than 2gb of RAM. Ofcourse this is likely inaccurate so in the end this may well be moot but the point still stands.

First of all, laptops, computers and such are not a good comparison for system ram needed for gaming as operating systems, browser tabs and other thing things take up a good chunk of system ram by themselves before the game even boots up...Below is a screenshot of my system ram usage as I am replying to this. I am not gaming and half of my ram is taken up...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OmR9Jz-kc7E/TsH4W6gBvCI/AAAAAAAAAgI/hEeWqXreFI0/s567/system%252520ram.jpg

Secondly, I think people will have to lower their next gen expectations. Microsoft and Sony next gen consoles are not going to pack a dual GTX 580 or 6990 video cards due to cost, power consumption and heat. Best we can hope for is something along the lines of gtx560Ti or 6950 like performance brought down to a 28 nm chip which consumes a maximum of 120W by itself.  So realistically for next gen people need to expect a slight bump in detail along with 1080p gaming at 60 frames per second and true 720p per eye 3D gaming @ 30 fps as a best case scenario. HD TV's that 99% of the people who play consoles opwn do not support higher settings than that so there is no point for them to deliver something better than that.

Lastly, next gen games will eat up video ram more than they eat up system ram. Something like Metro 2033 on 3 monitors maxed out already needs more video ram than system ram. Microsoft will be smart to give their video card as much ram as sytem ram. If people are expecting Avatar like graphics, be prepared for 2GB of video RAM to be used needed at least. System ram however really doesn't need to be much higher than 2 GB if there is dedicated video memory...assuming Xbox 720 doesn't run on windows vista :)

True now, but to play safe, a good rule of thumb is that a console needs half the RAM of a mid-range PC contemporary at launch, as PC games devs consider that amount typically available for their games (MS usually tends to occupy half the average PC RAM with its latest systems). But 8GB is becoming quite common right now, and sooner or later devs will start considering 4GB free the typical amount, and the problems almost always come from multiplats, as devs don't want to spend time, money and other resources to optimise for each single architecture. So 4GB will be a play safe amount at the end of next year. When this gen consoles launched, they had just 1/4 (or even less in Wii's case) of the typical main RAM of a contemporary PC (yes XB360 potentially offers more room as UMA allows flexible allocation of memory either to central or graphics uses, but devs won't reduce the use of graphics RAM to reycle it as main one at risk of pissing off deep pocketed graphic whores, and they'll have anyway to adapt to the smallest offer, in case of multiplats, so it would be pointless), and this brought troubles in some cases, not to mention Wii, that being even more avaricious on RAM, ended up not receiving at all some ports or getting "special" (read "retarded") versions. Exclusives usually have no problems, but exclusives aren't everything. And this doesn't take into account that while this gen too little RAM crippled their chances limiting what they could run, next gen, maybe not Nintendo, but Sony and MS consoles will offer more non-gaming functions, extending their ability to be used as home theatre and general purpose computers.


hmm.. VERY interesting



NightDragon83 on 15 November 2011

Why is everyone crapping on the rumored RAM? From what I interpreted from the way it was said in the rumor, the 2GB of DDR3 RAM is what's dedicated to the GPU, so the total system memory is likely much more than 2GB. A six-core CPU with software designed to take full advantage of it (unlike the vast majority of the PC software and games out there that don't even take full advantage of having a quad-core CPU, much less CPUs with more than 4-cores), mated with a GPU (which we haven't seen the actual specs yet) with rumored 2GB dedicated memory can easily rival any top-tier gaming rig out there today.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.